Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the new world, you are over fifty. You should have applied, but why should they hire you? You are not going anywhere and you work for free. Maybe you could train up the new employee? Stop volunteering and look for work. It will be hard at your age.

No, I can't apply without her endorsement. I know many people there socially, and some of them might be on the committee. It would be pointless for me to apply without her encouragement and wholehearted support. The committee might (and probably would) choose someone else, and as I said, that's OK, but I felt that all the work I've done ought to have made my candidacy stand out to her.

You are right, she knows she can get my work for free, at least until I find a full time job. I told her I was not going to quit as a volunteer (because I really do believe in this organization), but I also told her I am looking for full time work. She knows my background. There may be better qualified candidates on paper, but this organization has been taking and using my ideas, spending money on things I've suggested, making structural changes to the organization that I suggested. Who could be better qualified for the job than someone who is actually doing the job, in essence, as I have?

You're starting to sound like a whiner or a diva, OP. Maybe that's not what they are looking for on a FT basis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, being of similar age, I sympathize with your frustration, but under what conditions would you have applied for the job?

I would have applied if I'd felt she was going to endorse me as a candidate. Yes, I know that I might not have gotten the job, and that's OK with me, but without her endorsement, I definitely will not get the job. I'm upset because I feel that all the work I've done for free is not acknowledged as valuable.

And I really think she wants someone younger. The job would report directly to her, and I'm a decade older than she is. As a volunteer, I'm no threat to her, but were I her employee, it's possible she'd feel intimidated by my age and experience (although we have completely different skills) and possibly feel her authority was threatened. These are my conjectures.

It bothers me that she will take my work for free, and yet when it comes time to actually pay me for it, she seems unable to acknowledge the contribution I've made. And when they hire someone new (and younger), I'm going to be giving this person direction because I have experience with the organization and we are in the process of implementing many of my ideas.

You are certainly jumping to a lot of conclusions! I have been hired by managers younger than I and it wasn't a problem. (I am also 50)

She didn't want to make you any promises, ESPECIALLY considering that it is not solely up to her as they hire by committee. Sorry, you lost any chance to complain when you didn't apply. You should have applied and enumerated all your ideas they have implemented in a cover letter. Then, if you were snubbed or passed over, you could complain and take your skills elsewhere.

OP what did you want us to say? We gave you our honest opinion and you got all defensive. Don't post one an anonymous forum useless you want other people's opinions. I don't think anyone was completely disagreeing with you, we are just trying to understand why you didn't just apply for the job anyway. If you didn't get it you didn't get it, but making all these assumptions without even applying is ridiculous.

OP, I am so confused by your reasoning I am not even sure this post is real. Yes, there may be age discrimination, who knows. But I don't understand why you would not apply, what would you have lost by putting in your application? And why would you just continue volunteering at a place that you felt was discriminating against you without even trying to apply for the job???

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or maybe you do excellent work, but you're really stubborn and have a chip on your shoulder (which is what is coming through in this thread).

I would bet my child's education future that the person who wrote this, and all the similar PPs, are < 40 years old or so.

Just wait. Then you'll get it, when you are 52 and right-sized.

To state reality and not back down (anonymously in the internet) isn't the equivalent of "chip on your shoulder." Op has been respectful in her tone and likely accurate in reporting the fscts. I see this situation all the time, with both men and women fwiw.

Actually, I've over 40 and got a job last year as a career changer at a small non-profit where everyone but the ED is 20 years younger than me. If OP had applied for the job, she would have all my sympathy, but if you don't apply (because your ego isn't stroked and you don't want to get embarrassed in front of your friends if you don't get the job) you can't complain that you didn't get the job.

Anonymous wrote:Or maybe you do excellent work, but you're really stubborn and have a chip on your shoulder (which is what is coming through in this thread).

I would bet my child's education future that the person who wrote this, and all the similar PPs, are < 40 years old or so.

Just wait. Then you'll get it, when you are 52 and right-sized.

To state reality and not back down (anonymously in the internet) isn't the equivalent of "chip on your shoulder." Op has been respectful in her tone and likely accurate in reporting the fscts. I see this situation all the time, with both men and women fwiw.

None of the above, pps. I'm just angry, and hurt and disappointed. That's what's coming out in my posts.

DCUM nasties are coming out, so I'm not going to read this thread any more.

Thanks to those who posted nicely. I just wanted to vent, and I appreciate your responses. I'll get over this by tomorrow, and move on.

Anonymous wrote:Or maybe you do excellent work, but you're really stubborn and have a chip on your shoulder (which is what is coming through in this thread).

+1

Or maybe you do excellent work, but you're really stubborn and have a chip on your shoulder (which is what is coming through in this thread).

Or it could be that you have some good ideas, but also have a big ego and a weird sense of entitlement and she puts up with it in a volunteer but isn't interested in having to manage it in a full time employee. Or doesn't think you're a good match with the other employees (not always age related). Or knows that one if your other "social acquaintances" on the committee would have tanked your resume.

You come across as kind of aggressive and nasty in your posts here, so you may want to think about the role your own personality may have in this.

It's this age thing that bothers me. The perception, as an OP stated, is that when you're 50 you're slow, out of it, lack computer skills, etc., is true in some cases. But in this case, I've been, essentially, doing the job. The only reason I can think of, and I've gone over and over this, for the head not offering enthusiastic support for my application, is my age. Even in the meeting with her, she was practically jumping up and down at all the things I said I would do if I were given the job. She took notes, which I'm sure she'll give to the 30something person who gets the job!

If I were a minority (which I'm not, other than female), this would be discriminatory and illegal. But we look aside when older people (ya, 51 is "old") are passed over in the hiring process. Why is that? Why is this OK? Posters say "it's the way it is, get over it." Why? Would you say the same thing if I were black? Hispanic? Handicapped?

Well, yeah, it could be your age, or it could be that you are essentially doing the same functions for free right now, and have given them no indication that you would desist from doing so if they hired someone else for the paid position. From an employer's perspective, OP, keeping you right where you are is a great deal, regardless of your age.

You're naive to think she was going to do back flips over you wanting to apply. She told you to throw your resume in the pool of applicants.

Anonymous wrote:You're making a lot of assumptions OP considering you didn't apply/go through the hiring process.

No, I'm not. I spoke with someone who is on the hiring committee. She was very excited that I was interested in the job, and she told me to talk to the head. She thought I'd be a great candidate, but she said I'd never get the job if the head wasn't 100% behind me.

It's this age thing that bothers me. The perception, as an OP stated, is that when you're 50 you're slow, out of it, lack computer skills, etc., is true in some cases. But in this case, I've been, essentially, doing the job. The only reason I can think of, and I've gone over and over this, for the head not offering enthusiastic support for my application, is my age. Even in the meeting with her, she was practically jumping up and down at all the things I said I would do if I were given the job. She took notes, which I'm sure she'll give to the 30something person who gets the job!

If I were a minority (which I'm not, other than female), this would be discriminatory and illegal. But we look aside when older people (ya, 51 is "old") are passed over in the hiring process. Why is that? Why is this OK? Posters say "it's the way it is, get over it." Why? Would you say the same thing if I were black? Hispanic? Handicapped?

If I were a 41 year old SAHM, the head would have endorsed me completely. I'm certain of that, which is why this really, really bugs me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, being of similar age, I sympathize with your frustration, but under what conditions would you have applied for the job?

I would have applied if I'd felt she was going to endorse me as a candidate. Yes, I know that I might not have gotten the job, and that's OK with me, but without her endorsement, I definitely will not get the job. I'm upset because I feel that all the work I've done for free is not acknowledged as valuable.

And I really think she wants someone younger. The job would report directly to her, and I'm a decade older than she is. As a volunteer, I'm no threat to her, but were I her employee, it's possible she'd feel intimidated by my age and experience (although we have completely different skills) and possibly feel her authority was threatened. These are my conjectures.

It bothers me that she will take my work for free, and yet when it comes time to actually pay me for it, she seems unable to acknowledge the contribution I've made. And when they hire someone new (and younger), I'm going to be giving this person direction because I have experience with the organization and we are in the process of implementing many of my ideas.

So what you wanted was her to say "oh that's great, of course we will hire you" without there actually being any hiring process. Not likely to happen nowadays. There needs to be a competitive process even when the process is skewed towards one candidate. So you need to submit your resume, go to the interview, wow them, and get hired. If nothing else, it would have been a great trial run for future interviews.

You need to put yourself out there and apply. She may have been holding back because she didn't want to over-promise, or because of legal concerns that the hiring process would not be fair and open if she semi-promised the job to you. Job seeking is a very vulnerable-feeling experience, but you do have to put your ego aside and just go for it. You also need to be in the mindset that they might say no, but that wouldn't be the end of the world. And really, if you are doing the work for free, and will keep doing it, they won't have an incentive to hire you unless you push them. Good luck with your search.