Anonymous wrote:Another challenge I suspect might be an issue when trying to reinvent an existing high schools in DC....DC old timers are big boosters of their alma maters...not always financially...but as watch dogs for ensuring that "their school" doesn't change too much. Is that off base?

It's true and it is a big problem. What worked in the 70's would not necessarily work now.

These are great ideas and why aren't any of them encapsulated in the DME's proposals, the Chancellor's goals, or the mayoral candidates's platforms? I'm thrilled to be reading these ideas and thoughts...just bums me out that they have to bubble up from parents (assuming) and not from our highly paid educationl professionals.

Anonymous wrote:I think that if they (a) provided an all-new faculty/administration;
(b) implemented high quality educational offerings in terms of curriculum;
(c) drew the boundary basically along 16th Street from Dupont/Logan to Colonial Village/Shepherd Park; and
(d) made Roosevelt a DC-CAS proficient admissions HS (which is a lower bar than SWW or Banneker but not general admission), then you might have a chance at getting parents interested.

If you are IB and not DC-CAS proficient, then you go to Cardozo or Coolidge.

To that end, why not use the same criteria for MacFarland? Lots more efficient to create minimum standard MS and HS when you have renovated, ready-to-go buildings already sitting there, than to try to start from scratch.

"DC-CAS Proficient" -- brilliant and maybe a good way to make sure the students take them seriously. I know they are changing to something else next year, but that test could be used instead. They should seriously consider a better educational model for the non-proficient, such as voc ed.

Anonymous wrote:I think that if they (a) provided an all-new faculty/administration;
(b) implemented high quality educational offerings in terms of curriculum;
(c) drew the boundary basically along 16th Street from Dupont/Logan to Colonial Village/Shepherd Park; and
(d) made Roosevelt a DC-CAS proficient admissions HS (which is a lower bar than SWW or Banneker but not general admission), then you might have a chance at getting parents interested.

If you are IB and not DC-CAS proficient, then you go to Cardozo or Coolidge.

To that end, why not use the same criteria for MacFarland? Lots more efficient to create minimum standard MS and HS when you have renovated, ready-to-go buildings already sitting there, than to try to start from scratch.

And for the kids who don't qualify -- have school that actually address their needs -- instead of warehousing them or expecting miracles from them, with energized TFA teachers.

Anonymous wrote:Having followed middle school issues for a long time it's painfully obvious that it's much easier to start a new school than to turn an existing school around. I've watched for a decade while parents have tried to change Hardy. In much less time, Latin (founded 2007) and Basis (2011) have sprung up, with greatly lesser resources, and now attract more kids in-boundary for Hardy than Hardy does.

New schools have the advantage that they don't have anyone fighting for the status quo.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, the question could be rephrased: If you could duplicate Wilson's success, and locate it either at any existing high school or a new site WOTP, where would you pick? Clearly, Roosevelt is more central than any of the WOTP locations. But that question assumes that geography doesn't affect school performance, and the empirical evidence is that it does.

Come on -- it's not geography that affects performance, it's the kids. motivated kids/parents from all over the geography of the town will go to other geographic locations in search of an improved education.

It would be a good idea to get the data on kids that do that now and see how they are doing academically -- and see how many motivated students and families there are living all around the city - who might welcome a new high school -- if there was some certainty that it would be as good or better than their certain situation.

Anonymous wrote:I think that if they (a) provided an all-new faculty/administration;
(b) implemented high quality educational offerings in terms of curriculum;
(c) drew the boundary basically along 16th Street from Dupont/Logan to Colonial Village/Shepherd Park; and
(d) made Roosevelt a DC-CAS proficient admissions HS (which is a lower bar than SWW or Banneker but not general admission), then you might have a chance at getting parents interested.

If you are IB and not DC-CAS proficient, then you go to Cardozo or Coolidge.

To that end, why not use the same criteria for MacFarland? Lots more efficient to create minimum standard MS and HS when you have renovated, ready-to-go buildings already sitting there, than to try to start from scratch.

This is an interesting idea. Everyone has had great input in this thread (kind of unusual for DCUM). Thanks for all the great feedback. Keep it coming!

I think that if they (a) provided an all-new faculty/administration;
(b) implemented high quality educational offerings in terms of curriculum;
(c) drew the boundary basically along 16th Street from Dupont/Logan to Colonial Village/Shepherd Park; and
(d) made Roosevelt a DC-CAS proficient admissions HS (which is a lower bar than SWW or Banneker but not general admission), then you might have a chance at getting parents interested.

If you are IB and not DC-CAS proficient, then you go to Cardozo or Coolidge.

To that end, why not use the same criteria for MacFarland? Lots more efficient to create minimum standard MS and HS when you have renovated, ready-to-go buildings already sitting there, than to try to start from scratch.

We are within walking distance of Wilson but I would be up for it. We commute downtown so we could switch it up and drive over that way.

Frankly I don't even need test-in nor do I think that is what we should be shooting for. Perhaps a test-in/regular hybrid to attract lots of different families but I worry that if DCPS tries to specialize then the regular kids (mine) get left behind. Mine would do fine at Wilson but aren't cut out for SWW or Bannekar. We just want a great, general ed high school with lots of extracurriculars, good supports and engaged families.

About the idea of a test-in academy plus a general program: that's what worked for Wilson, no?

I do think it would be essential to rename/rebrand this proposed HS. It's not just the alumni who are a barrier to change; it's the reputation. General perceptions about existing schools are slow to change.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think folks would only buy in if the program at Roosevelt was superior. And by program I do not just mean educational offerings (although that's critical and there would need to be test-in advanced programs, etc). But it would need to have outstanding, moneyed extra-curriculars too. I would totally do it...but it would need to be world class our of the starting block...not a 5 year ramp-up. Best administrators, best teachers. Best. Now that is probably a bar set too high, right?

That seems like an appropriate bar. I expect it would cost less than building a new high school.

12:37 mom here again. While I confirm that I would not accept the commute for my sons (as I still have nightmares of my high school commute , and vivid memories of the detriment and disruption it caused to the lazy students) I believe that test-in and differentiation should be the way to go. What has convinced the neighborhood families for Hardy next year (assuming they are still in after this mess) has been having the Principal and DCPS confirming that the school will have advanced math and English classes starting from next year (math is already in place).

Anonymous wrote:
Jeff, I live in Wesley Heights near Nebraska. Cycling to Wilson for my son would be 10 minutes (or 15 minutes bus ride). I have too vivid memories of my five year commutes to high school as a teenager, the anguish on the bus when traffic was delaying the ride, the exhaustion back home at the end of the school day and the anxiety because I had not yet started my homework. No, I cannot accept it for my sons and especially for the youngest one that would be extremely detrimental).

I understand. I agree that there are areas -- probably anywhere beyond Mass. Ave. -- for which the commute would be too much of a challenge. Ironically, the areas closest to Wilson are the WotP areas closest to Roosevelt.

We are in Ward 3 and just in pre-K, but we would travel for a good magnet that was right for our child. For example, Wilson is "good," but if my son shows aptitude for math and science, BASIS looks appealing. A gifted program would be appealing. Maybe a bilingual program would be appealing - e.g. DCI. Of course the charters are basically leading those spaces right now, except the "gifted" one...

jsteele wrote:I just want to toss this idea out to see the reaction. Don't crucify me for asking. But, if Wilson is over-crowded and a new facility is required, why couldn't some students go to Roosevelt, assuming its programs were tremendously improved to be at Wilson levels?

Roosevelt is currently undergoing a multi-million dollar renovation, but will be tremendously under-enrolled when complete. While it wouldn't be practical to be fed by Hardy, it's not all that far from Deal. Not as convenient for WotP families, obviously, but not an insurmountable commute for high school students. That could free up space in Wilson for Hardy and Oyster and obviate the need for a new WotP high school.

Full disclosure, Proposal Example B put my family in a feeder pattern leading to Roosevelt, something we are not prepared to accept. In fact, I was recently quoted in a Washington City Paper article saying that if we were told to go to Roosevelt, we wouldn't go. So, I am playing devil's advocate a bit. But, the argument can be made as Petworth-area elementary schools improve, there will be demand for a quality middle school (no standalone middle schools exist in Ward 4) and, eventually, a high school. If feeding some WotP high school students to Roosevelt could both relieve over-crowding at Wilson and help jump-start Roosevelt's revival, that would be a win-win solution, wouldn't it?

Okay, flame proof outerwear is now fully donned and all seams sealed. Blast away.

Jeff, I live in Wesley Heights near Nebraska. Cycling to Wilson for my son would be 10 minutes (or 15 minutes bus ride). I have too vivid memories of my five year commutes to high school as a teenager, the anguish on the bus when traffic was delaying the ride, the exhaustion back home at the end of the school day and the anxiety because I had not yet started my homework. No, I cannot accept it for my sons and especially for the youngest one that would be extremely detrimental).

You know, we have done so much for our schools (= for our kids, I do not feel like a hero, I obviously had returns from that) , poured thousands ($15,000+ ) into Mann PTA over the past years, started the parents coordination for Hardy , gathering the largest ever cohort to Hardy from Mann for next year... I am tired, and I am offended by the fact that the DME put me in a position last night at the meeting where if I cross "yes" to 20% HS quotas for the most disadvantaged students, that practically means that my kid will not feed to Wilson. As citizens, voters and taxpayers we should have not put into such a trade-off situation by our administrators.. I am dedicating my professional life to fight to poverty, I think I do my job very well, work day & night for it. And I would be fired in a snap if I had put my stakeholders in such a trade-off position... So I crossed "NO" , I dont't want such quotas. That cross sucked. But I make the DME and DCPS accountable for that.

So, to get back to your question. No Roosevelt would not be an option for us. We would just opt out from DCPS and apply to the nearby private schools. It would be hearthbreaking for us and a bad match for our sons (who are, by the way, musicians and swimmers, the Hardy-Wilson sequence would have been just perfect) . But such a long commute no.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thnk it would have to be test in on the level of a TJ (not necessarily STEM though) and as a PP stated, it needs to be the best from day one. And maybe test in is one way to achieve that.

How about combining a test-in academy of some sort with general non-test in program?

My knee jerk reaction is that to attract higher SES families, particularly any WotP, they'd want it to be all test-in (trying to ensure that "your" kid doesn't end up in the "wrong crowd"). BUT, if you want to call the school Roosevelt and you want it to be at the Roosevelt facility, you can't do that (see my note above about old timers). But maybe I'm being to pessimistic and not giving people enough credit. Again, I'd seriously consider it.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thnk it would have to be test in on the level of a TJ (not necessarily STEM though) and as a PP stated, it needs to be the best from day one. And maybe test in is one way to achieve that.

How about combining a test-in academy of some sort with general non-test in program?

That would absolutely attract families from all wards. They should do that for a ms too.