OP here, and thanks to Jeff for reminding folks of the players involved. As I said, I believe the scope of what's been proposed is beyond the planning capacity of a Deputy Mayor of Education an and education think tank. I know the Urban Institute well, and while some branches of it would be well suited to analyze the effects of a far-reaching proposal like the ones floated here, I don't think they are involved in this process. I still maintain that a wholesale redistribution of students across the city needs careful study not just by education analysts and community members, but by people who will question the impacts from very different lines of thinking--such as traffic flow, public transportation, tax base, property values, and what has truly been proven to remediate the achievement gap for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds (apart from increasing access to high quality early education, which, to DC's credit, we do great in).

I see little in these proposals that answers these questions, and I plan to attend the public meetings to ask them.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, part of me wants to think...of COURSE they would do an environmental impact before such broad sweeping change like this. The change to basic lifestyle of the city would be so broad as to possibly shut down streets around schools for hours.

Honestly? We spent the day looking at houses in VA...not that we want to move, but we live downtown and the traffic for us (another place the city failed with lack of impact study) with this controlled choice can only get worse.

Lucky, our school is moving so we are now going to be on a direct bus route, but I hope there is more research before implementation.

It's highly doubtful that DCPS did any research on this -- it's not their way. They have based their other radical changes (e.g. IMPACT) on belief and don't seem to reassess when their beliefs are not supported by evidence.

It is particularly unlikely that DCPS did any research given that these proposals don't come from DCPS. People seem to be confused about this, so let's review the parties involved:

Deputy Mayor for Education -- This is Abigail Smith who reports to the Mayor. She is running the process that generated the policy examples under discussion. She is assisted by the 21st Century Fund and the Urban Institute and advised by an advisory committee consisting of District residents.

DCPS -- run by Kaya Henderson who also reports to the Mayor, but separated from the DME. DCPS has representatives participating in the DME's process, but not running it.

Office of the State Superintendent of Education and State Board of Education -- The Superintendent is appointed by the Mayor and advised by an elected board. I am not sure of their involvement in the DME's process, but it is probably from the sidelines if any.

District of Columbia Public Charter School Board - an appointed board that administers charter schools. A role for charters is envisioned in some of the policy examples but I am not aware of any formal role for the PCSB in the DME's process.

DC Council -- Members of the Council have their own views and interests and may be asked to enact legislation to enable the ideas proposed by the DME.

General Election Candidates for Mayor -- The leading candidates for November's general election are both Council Members who conceivably delay or influence the DME's actions.

I don't believe the bolded part is correct. A.N., a member of the technical advisory team, works at Urban. I don't believe he is acting in an anything remotely resembling an official capacity. DME just listed his employer because that what they've done for others.

I was told that the Urban Institute has been crunching numbers for the Advisory Committee. But, if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, part of me wants to think...of COURSE they would do an environmental impact before such broad sweeping change like this. The change to basic lifestyle of the city would be so broad as to possibly shut down streets around schools for hours.

Honestly? We spent the day looking at houses in VA...not that we want to move, but we live downtown and the traffic for us (another place the city failed with lack of impact study) with this controlled choice can only get worse.

Lucky, our school is moving so we are now going to be on a direct bus route, but I hope there is more research before implementation.

It's highly doubtful that DCPS did any research on this -- it's not their way. They have based their other radical changes (e.g. IMPACT) on belief and don't seem to reassess when their beliefs are not supported by evidence.

It is particularly unlikely that DCPS did any research given that these proposals don't come from DCPS. People seem to be confused about this, so let's review the parties involved:

Deputy Mayor for Education -- This is Abigail Smith who reports to the Mayor. She is running the process that generated the policy examples under discussion. She is assisted by the 21st Century Fund and the Urban Institute and advised by an advisory committee consisting of District residents.

DCPS -- run by Kaya Henderson who also reports to the Mayor, but separated from the DME. DCPS has representatives participating in the DME's process, but not running it.

Office of the State Superintendent of Education and State Board of Education -- The Superintendent is appointed by the Mayor and advised by an elected board. I am not sure of their involvement in the DME's process, but it is probably from the sidelines if any.

District of Columbia Public Charter School Board - an appointed board that administers charter schools. A role for charters is envisioned in some of the policy examples but I am not aware of any formal role for the PCSB in the DME's process.

DC Council -- Members of the Council have their own views and interests and may be asked to enact legislation to enable the ideas proposed by the DME.

General Election Candidates for Mayor -- The leading candidates for November's general election are both Council Members who conceivably delay or influence the DME's actions.

I don't believe the bolded part is correct. A.N., a member of the technical advisory team, works at Urban. I don't believe he is acting in an anything remotely resembling an official capacity. DME just listed his employer because that what they've done for others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, part of me wants to think...of COURSE they would do an environmental impact before such broad sweeping change like this. The change to basic lifestyle of the city would be so broad as to possibly shut down streets around schools for hours.

Honestly? We spent the day looking at houses in VA...not that we want to move, but we live downtown and the traffic for us (another place the city failed with lack of impact study) with this controlled choice can only get worse.

Lucky, our school is moving so we are now going to be on a direct bus route, but I hope there is more research before implementation.

It's highly doubtful that DCPS did any research on this -- it's not their way. They have based their other radical changes (e.g. IMPACT) on belief and don't seem to reassess when their beliefs are not supported by evidence.

It is particularly unlikely that DCPS did any research given that these proposals don't come from DCPS. People seem to be confused about this, so let's review the parties involved:

Deputy Mayor for Education -- This is Abigail Smith who reports to the Mayor. She is running the process that generated the policy examples under discussion. She is assisted by the 21st Century Fund and the Urban Institute and advised by an advisory committee consisting of District residents.

DCPS -- run by Kaya Henderson who also reports to the Mayor, but separated from the DME. DCPS has representatives participating in the DME's process, but not running it.

Office of the State Superintendent of Education and State Board of Education -- The Superintendent is appointed by the Mayor and advised by an elected board. I am not sure of their involvement in the DME's process, but it is probably from the sidelines if any.

District of Columbia Public Charter School Board - an appointed board that administers charter schools. A role for charters is envisioned in some of the policy examples but I am not aware of any formal role for the PCSB in the DME's process.

DC Council -- Members of the Council have their own views and interests and may be asked to enact legislation to enable the ideas proposed by the DME.

General Election Candidates for Mayor -- The leading candidates for November's general election are both Council Members who conceivably delay or influence the DME's actions.

Anonymous wrote:OP, part of me wants to think...of COURSE they would do an environmental impact before such broad sweeping change like this. The change to basic lifestyle of the city would be so broad as to possibly shut down streets around schools for hours.

Honestly? We spent the day looking at houses in VA...not that we want to move, but we live downtown and the traffic for us (another place the city failed with lack of impact study) with this controlled choice can only get worse.

Lucky, our school is moving so we are now going to be on a direct bus route, but I hope there is more research before implementation.

It's highly doubtful that DCPS did any research on this -- it's not their way. They have based their other radical changes (e.g. IMPACT) on belief and don't seem to reassess when their beliefs are not supported by evidence.

How about truancy rates? I anticipate them skyrocketing. Also what about families where older middle school aged kids care for younger siblings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Point 1 is huge. As someone who does travel 3 miles to her school, it's a huge task every day. In a city like this we are not set up for this kind of travel, buses do not go from Ward to Ward, metro is super expensive and not close to many of the schools, so this forces parents to drive.

Right now, there are only a few parents making this horrific commute (yes, 3 miles can be about an hour each way or more daily). Imagine in 25% of the parents started taking on even 1/2 of that trip.

DCPS position - based on the data - is that this is already happening. Large proportion of kids at OOB /city wide schools. So any change would be at the margins.

But it would be different because instead of a lot of OOB kids doing the reverse commute on the redline to deal/Wilson, you could have a thousand or more kids with backpacks heading downtown at the beginning of the morning rush everyday. Have you been on the redline lately? The system cannot even handle the cuurnt load. so is DCPS going to pay for busing? What will that mean for taxes and traffic?

Anonymous wrote:Op, have you submitted these questions in writing to osse? I think you should. Who are the right people to send comments and questions to on these matters?

This process is being run by the Deputy Mayor for Education.

Op, have you submitted these questions in writing to osse? I think you should. Who are the right people to send comments and questions to on these matters?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The logistics would be a mess.

Also--as some people have already pointed out, and I think it is a huge deal--what does it do to a community when kids who live on the same block all go to different schools?

Many communities like this in DC already.

And if those families had had a reasonable option nearby, they would have taken it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Point 1 is huge. As someone who does travel 3 miles to her school, it's a huge task every day. In a city like this we are not set up for this kind of travel, buses do not go from Ward to Ward, metro is super expensive and not close to many of the schools, so this forces parents to drive.

Right now, there are only a few parents making this horrific commute (yes, 3 miles can be about an hour each way or more daily). Imagine in 25% of the parents started taking on even 1/2 of that trip.

DCPS position - based on the data - is that this is already happening. Large proportion of kids at OOB /city wide schools. So any change would be at the margins.

but we all know there is poor data is the system. what family in upper NW is sending their child to Anacostia High School?
OTO - there are a lot if "IB" families at desireable schools that are really OOB and we know have gamed the system.

Folks - you know the discussions around would you turn in a family that you knew was cheating? Maybe now that this will impact you - your answer is different?
If you knew that there were 25 families lying about residency at Janney - and now your neighbors are going to be zoned for Hearst - does this change things?

Hearst is a great school and we would welcome families from Murch and Janney into our community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Point 1 is huge. As someone who does travel 3 miles to her school, it's a huge task every day. In a city like this we are not set up for this kind of travel, buses do not go from Ward to Ward, metro is super expensive and not close to many of the schools, so this forces parents to drive.

Right now, there are only a few parents making this horrific commute (yes, 3 miles can be about an hour each way or more daily). Imagine in 25% of the parents started taking on even 1/2 of that trip.

DCPS position - based on the data - is that this is already happening. Large proportion of kids at OOB /city wide schools. So any change would be at the margins.

but we all know there is poor data is the system. what family in upper NW is sending their child to Anacostia High School?
OTO - there are a lot if "IB" families at desireable schools that are really OOB and we know have gamed the system.

Folks - you know the discussions around would you turn in a family that you knew was cheating? Maybe now that this will impact you - your answer is different?
If you knew that there were 25 families lying about residency at Janney - and now your neighbors are going to be zoned for Hearst - does this change things?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Point 1 is huge. As someone who does travel 3 miles to her school, it's a huge task every day. In a city like this we are not set up for this kind of travel, buses do not go from Ward to Ward, metro is super expensive and not close to many of the schools, so this forces parents to drive.

Right now, there are only a few parents making this horrific commute (yes, 3 miles can be about an hour each way or more daily). Imagine in 25% of the parents started taking on even 1/2 of that trip.

DCPS position - based on the data - is that this is already happening. Large proportion of kids at OOB /city wide schools. So any change would be at the margins.

Yes, but is that the ideal to which the city should strive? And should families have the continued choice of a school in their neighborhood if that is what they value?

Anonymous wrote:The logistics would be a mess.

Also--as some people have already pointed out, and I think it is a huge deal--what does it do to a community when kids who live on the same block all go to different schools?

Many communities like this in DC already.

And as PP notes quite possible net positive.