Does KIPP use Tools?

Anonymous wrote:Please ignore pretty much everything that has been said in the previous post. You are referencing information that you know nothing about, nor have studied, nor have actually implemented as a classroom teacher. Unfortunately, it sounds like the classroom within which you volunteer has a teacher that does not implement the Tools of the Mind program well.

In terms of grading play, that is completely against the philosophy of Tools. Most schools use the GOLD assessment system, which is a developmentally appropriate, research based assessment tool that provides the benchmarks for typically developing children across several developmental domains.

Realistically, the curriculum that is implemented in your child's classroom isn't nearly as important at the quality of the teacher. A teacher implements a curriculum, and they can do that well or poorly. I would ask potential principals if you're allowed to sit in on a class for more than 5 minutes as a pass-through, or see if any teachers are willing to speak with parents about what they do during the day. That will give you a better understanding of the pedagogical knowledge that the teacher has, and will hopefully demonstrate his or her ability to meet the needs of a diverse group of learners.

When I had visited an Open House with TOTM, I was able to talk to the principal who really didn't know much about the curriculum but said she was working hard to get rid of it. How many charters or WOTP schools use TOTM?

The story that Grandma tells is fairly accurate in my daughters classroom too. Her teacher doesn't like TOTM either and says it doesn't teach them what they need to know. My daughters teacher is Highly Effective. So what gives? My daughters teacher isn't the most creative either. She's an older teacher and doesn't care for much of the chaos that play involves. She is highly organized and I can tell that a lot of activity bothers her. Clearly, all TOTM schools and teachers aren't the same. I feel that my daughter is academically and socially growing.

GOLD is crap and totally subjective. My child's DCPS doesn't even use GOLD because it didn't give good information and provides narrative comments that aren't consistent with The child's progress.

Please ignore pretty much everything that has been said in the previous post. You are referencing information that you know nothing about, nor have studied, nor have actually implemented as a classroom teacher. Unfortunately, it sounds like the classroom within which you volunteer has a teacher that does not implement the Tools of the Mind program well.

In terms of grading play, that is completely against the philosophy of Tools. Most schools use the GOLD assessment system, which is a developmentally appropriate, research based assessment tool that provides the benchmarks for typically developing children across several developmental domains.

Realistically, the curriculum that is implemented in your child's classroom isn't nearly as important at the quality of the teacher. A teacher implements a curriculum, and they can do that well or poorly. I would ask potential principals if you're allowed to sit in on a class for more than 5 minutes as a pass-through, or see if any teachers are willing to speak with parents about what they do during the day. That will give you a better understanding of the pedagogical knowledge that the teacher has, and will hopefully demonstrate his or her ability to meet the needs of a diverse group of learners.

Room Grand Parent here.(Don't rip into me - I'm a Senior Citizen!)

Tools of the Mind is NOT a great curriculum. It is barely fair at best. Most teachers/prinicipals DO NOT like it. Most schools generally use it for Pre School and Pre K. The school I volunteer at for PreK has seen a drop in Kindergarten Dibels scores (not quite sure what that is but the teachers are always reminded of it). It could work frankly it truly depends on the creativity of the teacher, co teacher and the level of children you are teaching. DCPS does not provide teachers with any props or materials to create Tools themes. The time and energy teachers must take to change a theme every 6 weeks drains them without support. Teachers must create the home, restaurant, grocery store, hospital, pet vet and other themes with NO resources. I try to help my grandson's teacher to create and think of stuff but I get frustrated too. Then, they must teach the children how to "act" in the various centers using the props and acting out scenarios. The idea could be good but the children are supposed to play in their centers 45 minutes daily. That is too much time. Perhaps 15 to 20 should be the max. Anymore time than that equals chaos, destruction of props and bad behavior. It is the role of the teacher, co-teacher to prompt play with setting up scenarios, encouraging food orders, shopping for groceries, saying please, thank you and have a nice day. Frankly, it does not take 45 minutes to do any of those tasks in play. I appreciate my grandson's teacher with trying to teach them how to play and act but sometimes her approach to creativity, classroom manners and treating others is questionable at best. This meaning that she becomes upset with the fact that most of her students haven't been exposed to that type of play and working together.

As far as learning to write, the students practice writing in the afternoon some days if they get to it. As far as learning sentence writing, the "I am going to" and "We are going to" stem is memorized not truly learned. There is no alphabet instruction and rarely any counting/numbers instruction. There is no reading instruction, I assume they learn the writing stems through memory or osmosis?

The Freeze dance activity is insane! The songs drives the students wild. The teacher is supposed to play this song every morning and it's supposed to teach body control. The body position cards change and get most difficult but the same song everyday is insane. This curriculum definitely grows old of more mature PreKs. They often get tired of playing in the same centers daily, in the same roles. The younger or less mature students play in the centers but not how they are supposed to. They are generally just happy to be playing. It doesn't seem to meet the needs any student.

My grandson's teacher now lets me work with the higher students who have grown bored until we change to the next theme. She has me working with them on letters and numbers 3 times a week because she and other teacher don't want to be singled out as bad teachers next year. I frankly feel bad for my grandson's teacher because she is trying to teach them to play but at our school, the Kindergarteners don't use Tools so they won't even be playing as much next year. Seems like a wasted year and don't see much growth or unsure how you measure playing better. What I do know is that half the class doesn't know all their letters or how to write their last name. With this curriculum, you can truly tell what support and exposure these kids have at home. And I'm still really unsure how you grade their play??? The teacher seems frustrated. There is only 1 book for this curriculum, and it very vague at best.

When I volunteered for my older granddaughter, they used Houghton Mifflin, much more organized - using themes very similar. But the Houghton Mifflin, introduced letters, colors, and theme stories, puppets, music, art projects and books. My grandson's teacher has to find her own books to introduce the themes. DCPS doesn't provide them. It just seems like a LOT of work just to reinforce play.

Parents ask your teachers what your children are really learning with Tools and you decide. If it's enough, then fine.

Just my 2 cents..... As a retired dedicated volunteer room grandparent.

Anonymous wrote:We have been in a TOTM class for two years.

Pros:
- It works well with developing writing. My son can write actual short simple sentences.
- It facilitates the ability to draw detailed things through observation. He's really learning to draw complex, realistic things because they practice techniques every day.
- It helps a child adapt to a schedule and routine. My son is thriving on this and hates when the day is interrupted.
- It helps the child make decisions. My son is goal-oriented and decisive when it comes to play, and I don't feel he's "too" structured. Just smart and mature.
- It allows ample time for play - dramatic, creative, independent, group, etc... It's all incorporated.

Cons:
- It does work best with more involved parents who work with kids at home because they don't really focus on letters and numbers. My son knows these, so he does well and is BUILDING at school rather than learning new stuff constantly.
- I don't want to say it stifles creativity, but one example of the rigidity that is funny to me is that when they draw their play plans it is with a single marker or crayon that matches the color of the center. As a result of 2 years of this, my son draws mostly in one color because that's how he does it at school. He draws very detailed things, in ONE color.
- We don't have this experience, but when TOTM is done wrong or half assed, it's boring and flat and bad. Ours is done every day and well, and we are lucky.
- It also works best with a supplementary arts and physical and musical program; we sort of have this, but we have a really half-assed art teacher in our school so I wish the whole program was as well done as the TOTM classroom element.

Hope this helps!

I have had good experience with this program and recommend it if you think the school implements it thoroughly and true to the method.

I got to say that my kids love it and it has helped with their social skills. They have great teachers and lots of specials. Being in the school that first used it, also helps in getting teachers/staff that have it down to a science. My kids use different colors for the assignments, so I haven't seen the stiffling creativity. In fact their drawings have grown more complex and added details with lots of color. I have even heard them "make plans" as to what they'll play at home and taking turns being the vet and bringing their pet for a check up without needing my I intervention.

Anonymous wrote:12:02 here, thank you to everyone who responded. Would you say your children are/will be fully prepared both academically and socially for K class after the TOTM experience? While I don't think 3 year olds need academics drilled into them, my son is very inquisitive and already recognizes letters and numbers (which I 100% credit to his daycare provider) I would just hate for him to lose that. Is that what you mean by needing to supplement at home?

Since I have an extra day I'm thinking about moving my IB higher in my rankings. Thanks in advance!

I suspect your son coming into preschool already knowing letters and numbers will only serve to help him, not hinder him. I don't think he will lose those skills. It's just not the primary focus on the program. As for kindergarten, a lot of DCPS schols also use a Tools curriculum for that grade. That one focuses a lot on the magic tree house series as theri themes so the kids do 3 week units on each book and learn about dinosaurs, knights, mummies, pirates, Japan etc. (while also learning how to read, write and do math)

only thing is i bet a number of kids who did not do tools of the mind know the same information (my two children, for instance), so i am not sure tools of the mind is any better than other programs, especially after reviewing the research

Yes, I think it prepares them well. My son has been in a dual language tools of the mind program and knows numbers and letters in Spanish which I know was not supplemented at home (as much as English) so they do learn it. It may not be emphasized but they learn it somehow.

12:02 here, thank you to everyone who responded. Would you say your children are/will be fully prepared both academically and socially for K class after the TOTM experience? While I don't think 3 year olds need academics drilled into them, my son is very inquisitive and already recognizes letters and numbers (which I 100% credit to his daycare provider) I would just hate for him to lose that. Is that what you mean by needing to supplement at home?

Since I have an extra day I'm thinking about moving my IB higher in my rankings. Thanks in advance!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been in a TOTM class for two years.

Pros:
- It works well with developing writing. My son can write actual short simple sentences.
- It facilitates the ability to draw detailed things through observation. He's really learning to draw complex, realistic things because they practice techniques every day.
- It helps a child adapt to a schedule and routine. My son is thriving on this and hates when the day is interrupted.
- It helps the child make decisions. My son is goal-oriented and decisive when it comes to play, and I don't feel he's "too" structured. Just smart and mature.
- It allows ample time for play - dramatic, creative, independent, group, etc... It's all incorporated.

Cons:
- It does work best with more involved parents who work with kids at home because they don't really focus on letters and numbers. My son knows these, so he does well and is BUILDING at school rather than learning new stuff constantly.
- I don't want to say it stifles creativity, but one example of the rigidity that is funny to me is that when they draw their play plans it is with a single marker or crayon that matches the color of the center. As a result of 2 years of this, my son draws mostly in one color because that's how he does it at school. He draws very detailed things, in ONE color.
- We don't have this experience, but when TOTM is done wrong or half assed, it's boring and flat and bad. Ours is done every day and well, and we are lucky.
- It also works best with a supplementary arts and physical and musical program; we sort of have this, but we have a really half-assed art teacher in our school so I wish the whole program was as well done as the TOTM classroom element.

Hope this helps!

I have had good experience with this program and recommend it if you think the school implements it thoroughly and true to the method.

NP here, thank you for this summary pp. My IB school uses TOTM and it still wasn't clear to me exactly what this program was like. Can you describe how the children are learning how to write sentences if there's little focus on numbers and letters?

Sure.

Each day there are what we essentially know as centers. These are based around a unit which at our school lasts about 1 month. So if you are doing "grocery store" as a unit, center choices will be something like delivery dock (blue sign), produce (red sign), bakery (green sign), deli (purple sign), and checkout (orange sign). At the beginning of the center time, kids choose their center; my kid often gets his first choice but sometimes the 2nd or 3rd. Before they go there, they sit down with the teachers and draw a picture of their "play plan" of the day. So my son chooses bakery, gets a green marker, and draws himself baking a cake. At the bottom of the picture they write their plan in a sentence. For 3 yos, this is the teacher writing for them...a few months later, the 3 yo writes dashes for each word to represent that they can count words or syllables...at the end of the 3yo year, many kids will write "I am and a mix of symbols, sounds, and teacher fill-ins. Now at almost 5, my son has memorized "I am going to" and can write things like "bake a cake" or "gv pepol food" (currently on my fridge). It is AMAZING.

I know that sounds totally rigid, but I have been in the class a lot and it really isn't any more routine than the calendar at circle time. It takes 5 minutes then they go play.

I should add that at centers, they interact. For example in the grocery unit there is no "shopper" center because they all can walk to the other centers and participate in the play as visitors to the bakery/deli/whatever.

We have an awesomely craft-gifted asst. teacher this year and their centers are incredibly intricate. Cool sandwich making materials, dental molds made of pink salt dough and rocks (for teeth), etc...

I am loving the program.

I agree that the more the teacher is creative and interested in crafts the better the outcome for his/her students.

My child in the program pretends to write. He will either write a horizontal line for every word he says and puts a period at the end of the sentence. Some times the horizontal line is a line that looks like multiple Vs or Ms together. He seems to understand the concept that letters make up words, words make up sentences, that you can write and read words, sentences etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been in a TOTM class for two years.

Pros:
- It works well with developing writing. My son can write actual short simple sentences.
- It facilitates the ability to draw detailed things through observation. He's really learning to draw complex, realistic things because they practice techniques every day.
- It helps a child adapt to a schedule and routine. My son is thriving on this and hates when the day is interrupted.
- It helps the child make decisions. My son is goal-oriented and decisive when it comes to play, and I don't feel he's "too" structured. Just smart and mature.
- It allows ample time for play - dramatic, creative, independent, group, etc... It's all incorporated.

Cons:
- It does work best with more involved parents who work with kids at home because they don't really focus on letters and numbers. My son knows these, so he does well and is BUILDING at school rather than learning new stuff constantly.
- I don't want to say it stifles creativity, but one example of the rigidity that is funny to me is that when they draw their play plans it is with a single marker or crayon that matches the color of the center. As a result of 2 years of this, my son draws mostly in one color because that's how he does it at school. He draws very detailed things, in ONE color.
- We don't have this experience, but when TOTM is done wrong or half assed, it's boring and flat and bad. Ours is done every day and well, and we are lucky.
- It also works best with a supplementary arts and physical and musical program; we sort of have this, but we have a really half-assed art teacher in our school so I wish the whole program was as well done as the TOTM classroom element.

Hope this helps!

I have had good experience with this program and recommend it if you think the school implements it thoroughly and true to the method.

NP here, thank you for this summary pp. My IB school uses TOTM and it still wasn't clear to me exactly what this program was like. Can you describe how the children are learning how to write sentences if there's little focus on numbers and letters?

Not the PP but here's a good overview

http://www.hoboken.k12.nj.us/hoboken/Brandt/Brandt%20School/Preschool%20Curriculum%3A%20Tools%20of%20the%20Mind/Tools%20of%20the%20Mind%20pre-k%20overview%20for%20parents_0.pdf

From what I've observed, there is a theme which changes every 6-8 weeks. The whole room changes to reflect the theme. So for example if the theme is grocery store then each play center involves pretend around shopping at store or working at a store. The teachers will redecorate the room based on what's going on. The day is scheduled so part of the time they are practicing writing, doing imaginative play, and part of the day they are doing math/science lessons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have been in a TOTM class for two years.

Pros:
- It works well with developing writing. My son can write actual short simple sentences.
- It facilitates the ability to draw detailed things through observation. He's really learning to draw complex, realistic things because they practice techniques every day.
- It helps a child adapt to a schedule and routine. My son is thriving on this and hates when the day is interrupted.
- It helps the child make decisions. My son is goal-oriented and decisive when it comes to play, and I don't feel he's "too" structured. Just smart and mature.
- It allows ample time for play - dramatic, creative, independent, group, etc... It's all incorporated.

Cons:
- It does work best with more involved parents who work with kids at home because they don't really focus on letters and numbers. My son knows these, so he does well and is BUILDING at school rather than learning new stuff constantly.
- I don't want to say it stifles creativity, but one example of the rigidity that is funny to me is that when they draw their play plans it is with a single marker or crayon that matches the color of the center. As a result of 2 years of this, my son draws mostly in one color because that's how he does it at school. He draws very detailed things, in ONE color.
- We don't have this experience, but when TOTM is done wrong or half assed, it's boring and flat and bad. Ours is done every day and well, and we are lucky.
- It also works best with a supplementary arts and physical and musical program; we sort of have this, but we have a really half-assed art teacher in our school so I wish the whole program was as well done as the TOTM classroom element.

Hope this helps!

I have had good experience with this program and recommend it if you think the school implements it thoroughly and true to the method.

NP here, thank you for this summary pp. My IB school uses TOTM and it still wasn't clear to me exactly what this program was like. Can you describe how the children are learning how to write sentences if there's little focus on numbers and letters?

Sure.

Each day there are what we essentially know as centers. These are based around a unit which at our school lasts about 1 month. So if you are doing "grocery store" as a unit, center choices will be something like delivery dock (blue sign), produce (red sign), bakery (green sign), deli (purple sign), and checkout (orange sign). At the beginning of the center time, kids choose their center; my kid often gets his first choice but sometimes the 2nd or 3rd. Before they go there, they sit down with the teachers and draw a picture of their "play plan" of the day. So my son chooses bakery, gets a green marker, and draws himself baking a cake. At the bottom of the picture they write their plan in a sentence. For 3 yos, this is the teacher writing for them...a few months later, the 3 yo writes dashes for each word to represent that they can count words or syllables...at the end of the 3yo year, many kids will write "I am and a mix of symbols, sounds, and teacher fill-ins. Now at almost 5, my son has memorized "I am going to" and can write things like "bake a cake" or "gv pepol food" (currently on my fridge). It is AMAZING.

I know that sounds totally rigid, but I have been in the class a lot and it really isn't any more routine than the calendar at circle time. It takes 5 minutes then they go play.

I should add that at centers, they interact. For example in the grocery unit there is no "shopper" center because they all can walk to the other centers and participate in the play as visitors to the bakery/deli/whatever.

We have an awesomely craft-gifted asst. teacher this year and their centers are incredibly intricate. Cool sandwich making materials, dental molds made of pink salt dough and rocks (for teeth), etc...

I am loving the program.