To the people who think that they are somehow superior because they went to a good university, have a good job, and give their children the moon to ensure their success...

most of you have what you have because of your parents and their parents.

It's not your brilliance. It's not that you are more special.

Even if your parents were poor, they likely had self-respect. Even if your grandparents scraped for food, they likely weren't told everyday of their lives that they were worthless.

Stop flattering yourself... and stop looking down on others who came from different circumstances (whether race, class or whatever else).

You haven't seen accusations of racism here? LOL! You must be new here. No, it's not about race - but you made your own huge assumption in jumping there. Nobody here is griping about Sasha and Malia. If you think it's about race then you don't actually understand the problem.

Now what? A lot of it has already been said. The solutions is that a cultural shift has to happen, which means to stop pretending the problem is about race, or pretending it's not a problem, or pretending that it's different standards and values and that's ok - when in fact it's perpetuating dysfunction generation to generation and it's NOT OK. Cultural shift means that parents need to be educated to improve their own life skills and their own responsibilities to their kids, it means very early intervention and early childhood education to get kids off to a solid start, it means mentoring and educating folks on what "normal" actually is in the rest of society. This isn't an easy ride for any of us, it's not just a matter of throwing some money around and all is well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the "discipline reform" piece. I certainly agree there are better ways that discipline can and should be handled but there are a hundred ways to NOT do it. Certainly there do need to be interventions and probably things like mentoring, counseling and other supports to deal with disruptive behavior and other things, rather than just leaping to suspensions but I am a bit concerned about the evident reluctance to escalate more serious issues. When there are things like violence, threats of violence, property damage or theft - basically anything in the criminal code - those accordingly need to be dealt with in a serious manner.

I don't fundamentally disagree, but the discipline that black boys are subject to in the educational system is, on the aggregate, harsher than other populations of students. Black boys and young men are nine percent of the total school population, but one-quarter of all physical punishments meted out in schools are to black boys and young men.

"Physical punishment?" What is this, 1950, when the principal had a paddle?

As for your statistics, you are assuming the numbers should be commensurate, but studies show that there are significantly greater rates of violence and aggression among at-risk African American youth than among most other youth demographics. It's not as though most of the kids receiving discipline are sitting there sweetly, innocently, quietly and attentively following the teacher's direction to the letter, only to be singled out and sent to the principal for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Very true. The fact that this program or the need for it is actually being debated is making my head spin!

The REASON black men fill prisons at an alarming rate, have a sky high unemployment rate, have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, are have babies without supporting them, drop out of school at higher rates, etc. stems from a past where they were made to feel inferior, had rights taken away and were subjected to systematic and targeted rules to ensure a bottom feeder position. Come on folks, my parents went to a black only high school and had to use the old middle school books from the white kids who were 4 years younger. Once they graduated, there were no jobs for them (because they were black and not educated as well as white kids). I experienced difficulty in school with parents who did not understand how to help me and had no money to hire tutors. Education was and remains unequal. Black boys are incarcerated far more than any other group for the SAME offenses. There are cases all the time citing the unfairness... no question there. The court system was and remains unequal. Black boys were made to sit in back of buses, use different fountains, were hung... not too long ago folks and the scars are still there. We see the effects of this today.

But here's what REALLY gets me upset...

Instead of saying "Oh my goodness, how could we let this happen to this group of young boys. Most of them can't read at grade level. Most of them drop out of school. Most of them do not have fathers. Most of them have a parent or parents who got little to no education. Most of them are suffering psychologically and have low self esteem. We need to DO SOMETHING."



You question a program to help these kids who have obviously not be given what they need since the cycle repeats.

YET... I recently read a post on DCUM talking about the unfortunate deaths of a few high school kids over the past 4 years. Someone said it was an epidemic and we have to do something!

I do want to help everyone (especially kids) BUT I'm sick of people ACCEPTING that black boys are suppose to drop out of school, kill each other, go to prison FAR MORE than any other group.

And you know what... President Obama said that there are some programs that are WORKING!! That means there's a solution to the problem. Yes, a solution! One that doesn't even require tax payer money. That means that you don't have to pay for it.

So, why did this thread arise that questions this program???

Unbelievable. This is the lowest level I've ever seen DCUM go and it's been pretty low.

The problems you talk about were 50, 60 years ago, our parents generation, and maybe a little bit of our own childhoods. But this is TODAY. Youths today are not having rights taken away from them, they get the same classrooms, books and curriculum as the next kid, but now the problem is that it is they themselves who relegate themselves to inferior status, who don't try, who resort to scams, violence or aggression to try and get their way in life because they lack the skills to do it any other way. It's a part of ingrained, learned culture lingering from prior generations when things were worse - that needs to be dalt with and overcome. Yes, some programs are working - look at the renaissance happening in Harlem. It takes strong, concerted engagement at the community level - people reaching out to people and mentoring them early on in terms of proper parenting, life skills and so on.

Wow, you really are out of touch aren't you? Same classrooms? Really? Same books? Really? Tell me - when was the last time you volunteered at an urban school? Seriously? They don't have the same. Even in DC. My son goes to Deal. It's amazing. I recently volunteered at a school in SE DC. It was not the same. It was sad. The kids had never been across the river. It seems impossible, but it was true. I fear for my black boys every day. Do you fear for your boys? People automatically assume that because of the color of their skin, they will rob them or something. My son wears his pants low and his hat backwards - and yet, he has an A in Latin II Honors. It's tough for all boys, but especially boys of color. Please educate yourself. The stats are there for your viewing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now. We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

Yeah...a rant isn't really going to help. Ask Bill Cosby.

When there is no access to a higher quality life and no one around to model it, then kids are working with an entirely different standard than the ones you'd like to hold them to. A different set of values, different goals and objectives, different life strategy--completely removed from the standards you think they should be working toward. You talk about shame, but imagine the development of an 8 year old boy who sees everyone and everything around him as shameful (and an 8 year old knows). What can he do about it? What does it turn into as he develops? And then everyone in and out of his own community is calling him a knucklehead. It takes a pretty extraordinary kid to buck that trend. All others? Not a shot in the world.

The only upside to segregation was that a poor kid could live down the street or attend church with educated profeesionals and he could see what was possible. He could believe it was attainable. For kids today, it's about as realistic as life on the moon.

So, have your rant, cluck your teeth, complain about what parents aren't doing. But know that you're joining in on the downward pull. I'm glad someone with real influence is trying to do something and, from what I read in the press release, the effort is designed to come from the communities where these kids live. So you can sit in the comfort of your home and not have a hair on your head bothered about it. And if it's one less kid who might be knocking you over the head, be glad for it.

I can't speak for others but for me the frustration behind the rants stem from the fact that whenever anyone even brings up the fact that there is negative modeling and a different set of standards and values, most of the time it's denied and deflected and the person who brought it up is immediately accused of racism. And as long as there's nothing but denial and accusation going on rather than taking a first step of acknowledgement, not much can change. Doesn't the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step?

From whom are you seeking acknowledgement? From people who have time and inclination to post on this forum?

You're going on nothing but assumption, ranting to people who've got nothing but assumption. I'm not aware of any poor and black parents perusing DCUM over their morning coffee who will read your (clueless) opinion and assess whether or not it's racist. Wher's the charge of racism in this thread?

What I see is a lot of energy and words thrown at criticizing a class (and race) of people, and then a lot more coming up with reasons should be done about it. It's their own fault. It's ingrained. It's poor parenting. It's poor decisionmaking. All true! Now what?

If you've got no ideas at this point, you're in luck because no one has asked you for any. You can go mind your own business and tend to your school fundraisers and let the poor communities figure out how to turn things around. As I read it in the White House press release, that's the plan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the "discipline reform" piece. I certainly agree there are better ways that discipline can and should be handled but there are a hundred ways to NOT do it. Certainly there do need to be interventions and probably things like mentoring, counseling and other supports to deal with disruptive behavior and other things, rather than just leaping to suspensions but I am a bit concerned about the evident reluctance to escalate more serious issues. When there are things like violence, threats of violence, property damage or theft - basically anything in the criminal code - those accordingly need to be dealt with in a serious manner.

I don't fundamentally disagree, but the discipline that black boys are subject to in the educational system is, on the aggregate, harsher than other populations of students. Black boys and young men are nine percent of the total school population, but one-quarter of all physical punishments meted out in schools are to black boys and young men.

"Physical punishment?" What is this, 1950, when the principal had a paddle?

As for your statistics, you are assuming the numbers should be commensurate, but studies show that there are significantly greater rates of violence and aggression among at-risk African American youth than among most other youth demographics. It's not as though most of the kids receiving discipline are sitting there sweetly, innocently, quietly and attentively following the teacher's direction to the letter, only to be singled out and sent to the principal for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Very true. The fact that this program or the need for it is actually being debated is making my head spin!

The REASON black men fill prisons at an alarming rate, have a sky high unemployment rate, have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, are have babies without supporting them, drop out of school at higher rates, etc. stems from a past where they were made to feel inferior, had rights taken away and were subjected to systematic and targeted rules to ensure a bottom feeder position. Come on folks, my parents went to a black only high school and had to use the old middle school books from the white kids who were 4 years younger. Once they graduated, there were no jobs for them (because they were black and not educated as well as white kids). I experienced difficulty in school with parents who did not understand how to help me and had no money to hire tutors. Education was and remains unequal. Black boys are incarcerated far more than any other group for the SAME offenses. There are cases all the time citing the unfairness... no question there. The court system was and remains unequal. Black boys were made to sit in back of buses, use different fountains, were hung... not too long ago folks and the scars are still there. We see the effects of this today.

But here's what REALLY gets me upset...

Instead of saying "Oh my goodness, how could we let this happen to this group of young boys. Most of them can't read at grade level. Most of them drop out of school. Most of them do not have fathers. Most of them have a parent or parents who got little to no education. Most of them are suffering psychologically and have low self esteem. We need to DO SOMETHING."



You question a program to help these kids who have obviously not be given what they need since the cycle repeats.

YET... I recently read a post on DCUM talking about the unfortunate deaths of a few high school kids over the past 4 years. Someone said it was an epidemic and we have to do something!

I do want to help everyone (especially kids) BUT I'm sick of people ACCEPTING that black boys are suppose to drop out of school, kill each other, go to prison FAR MORE than any other group.

And you know what... President Obama said that there are some programs that are WORKING!! That means there's a solution to the problem. Yes, a solution! One that doesn't even require tax payer money. That means that you don't have to pay for it.

So, why did this thread arise that questions this program???

Unbelievable. This is the lowest level I've ever seen DCUM go and it's been pretty low.

The problems you talk about were 50, 60 years ago, our parents generation, and maybe a little bit of our own childhoods. But this is TODAY. Youths today are not having rights taken away from them, they get the same classrooms, books and curriculum as the next kid, but now the problem is that it is they themselves who relegate themselves to inferior status, who don't try, who resort to scams, violence or aggression to try and get their way in life because they lack the skills to do it any other way. It's a part of ingrained, learned culture lingering from prior generations when things were worse - that needs to be dalt with and overcome. Yes, some programs are working - look at the renaissance happening in Harlem. It takes strong, concerted engagement at the community level - people reaching out to people and mentoring them early on in terms of proper parenting, life skills and so on.

Wow, you really are out of touch aren't you? Same classrooms? Really? Same books? Really? Tell me - when was the last time you volunteered at an urban school? Seriously? They don't have the same. Even in DC. My son goes to Deal. It's amazing. I recently volunteered at a school in SE DC. It was not the same. It was sad. The kids had never been across the river. It seems impossible, but it was true. I fear for my black boys every day. Do you fear for your boys? People automatically assume that because of the color of their skin, they will rob them or something. My son wears his pants low and his hat backwards - and yet, he has an A in Latin II Honors. It's tough for all boys, but especially boys of color. Please educate yourself. The stats are there for your viewing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now. We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

Yeah...a rant isn't really going to help. Ask Bill Cosby.

When there is no access to a higher quality life and no one around to model it, then kids are working with an entirely different standard than the ones you'd like to hold them to. A different set of values, different goals and objectives, different life strategy--completely removed from the standards you think they should be working toward. You talk about shame, but imagine the development of an 8 year old boy who sees everyone and everything around him as shameful (and an 8 year old knows). What can he do about it? What does it turn into as he develops? And then everyone in and out of his own community is calling him a knucklehead. It takes a pretty extraordinary kid to buck that trend. All others? Not a shot in the world.

The only upside to segregation was that a poor kid could live down the street or attend church with educated profeesionals and he could see what was possible. He could believe it was attainable. For kids today, it's about as realistic as life on the moon.

So, have your rant, cluck your teeth, complain about what parents aren't doing. But know that you're joining in on the downward pull. I'm glad someone with real influence is trying to do something and, from what I read in the press release, the effort is designed to come from the communities where these kids live. So you can sit in the comfort of your home and not have a hair on your head bothered about it. And if it's one less kid who might be knocking you over the head, be glad for it.

I can't speak for others but for me the frustration behind the rants stem from the fact that whenever anyone even brings up the fact that there is negative modeling and a different set of standards and values, most of the time it's denied and deflected and the person who brought it up is immediately accused of racism. And as long as there's nothing but denial and accusation going on rather than taking a first step of acknowledgement, not much can change. Doesn't the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the "discipline reform" piece. I certainly agree there are better ways that discipline can and should be handled but there are a hundred ways to NOT do it. Certainly there do need to be interventions and probably things like mentoring, counseling and other supports to deal with disruptive behavior and other things, rather than just leaping to suspensions but I am a bit concerned about the evident reluctance to escalate more serious issues. When there are things like violence, threats of violence, property damage or theft - basically anything in the criminal code - those accordingly need to be dealt with in a serious manner.

I don't fundamentally disagree, but the discipline that black boys are subject to in the educational system is, on the aggregate, harsher than other populations of students. Black boys and young men are nine percent of the total school population, but one-quarter of all physical punishments meted out in schools are to black boys and young men.

"Physical punishment?" What is this, 1950, when the principal had a paddle?

As for your statistics, you are assuming the numbers should be commensurate, but studies show that there are significantly greater rates of violence and aggression among at-risk African American youth than among most other youth demographics. It's not as though most of the kids receiving discipline are sitting there sweetly, innocently, quietly and attentively following the teacher's direction to the letter, only to be singled out and sent to the principal for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Very true. The fact that this program or the need for it is actually being debated is making my head spin!

The REASON black men fill prisons at an alarming rate, have a sky high unemployment rate, have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, are have babies without supporting them, drop out of school at higher rates, etc. stems from a past where they were made to feel inferior, had rights taken away and were subjected to systematic and targeted rules to ensure a bottom feeder position. Come on folks, my parents went to a black only high school and had to use the old middle school books from the white kids who were 4 years younger. Once they graduated, there were no jobs for them (because they were black and not educated as well as white kids). I experienced difficulty in school with parents who did not understand how to help me and had no money to hire tutors. Education was and remains unequal. Black boys are incarcerated far more than any other group for the SAME offenses. There are cases all the time citing the unfairness... no question there. The court system was and remains unequal. Black boys were made to sit in back of buses, use different fountains, were hung... not too long ago folks and the scars are still there. We see the effects of this today.

But here's what REALLY gets me upset...

Instead of saying "Oh my goodness, how could we let this happen to this group of young boys. Most of them can't read at grade level. Most of them drop out of school. Most of them do not have fathers. Most of them have a parent or parents who got little to no education. Most of them are suffering psychologically and have low self esteem. We need to DO SOMETHING."



You question a program to help these kids who have obviously not be given what they need since the cycle repeats.

YET... I recently read a post on DCUM talking about the unfortunate deaths of a few high school kids over the past 4 years. Someone said it was an epidemic and we have to do something!

I do want to help everyone (especially kids) BUT I'm sick of people ACCEPTING that black boys are suppose to drop out of school, kill each other, go to prison FAR MORE than any other group.

And you know what... President Obama said that there are some programs that are WORKING!! That means there's a solution to the problem. Yes, a solution! One that doesn't even require tax payer money. That means that you don't have to pay for it.

So, why did this thread arise that questions this program???

Unbelievable. This is the lowest level I've ever seen DCUM go and it's been pretty low.

The problems you talk about were 50, 60 years ago, our parents generation, and maybe a little bit of our own childhoods. But this is TODAY. Youths today are not having rights taken away from them, they get the same classrooms, books and curriculum as the next kid, but now the problem is that it is they themselves who relegate themselves to inferior status, who don't try, who resort to scams, violence or aggression to try and get their way in life because they lack the skills to do it any other way. It's a part of ingrained, learned culture lingering from prior generations when things were worse - that needs to be dalt with and overcome. Yes, some programs are working - look at the renaissance happening in Harlem. It takes strong, concerted engagement at the community level - people reaching out to people and mentoring them early on in terms of proper parenting, life skills and so on.

Anonymous wrote:

The problems you talk about were 50, 60 years ago, our parents generation, and maybe a little bit of our own childhoods. But this is TODAY. Youths today are not having rights taken away from them, they get the same classrooms, books and curriculum as the next kid, but now the problem is that it is they themselves who relegate themselves to inferior status, who don't try, who resort to scams, violence or aggression to try and get their way in life because they lack the skills to do it any other way. It's a part of ingrained, learned culture lingering from prior generations when things were worse - that needs to be dalt with and overcome. Yes, some programs are working - look at the renaissance happening in Harlem. It takes strong, concerted engagement at the community level - people reaching out to people and mentoring them early on in terms of proper parenting, life skills and so on.

Anonymous wrote:

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now. We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

Yeah...a rant isn't really going to help. Ask Bill Cosby.

When there is no access to a higher quality life and no one around to model it, then kids are working with an entirely different standard than the ones you'd like to hold them to. A different set of values, different goals and objectives, different life strategy--completely removed from the standards you think they should be working toward. You talk about shame, but imagine the development of an 8 year old boy who sees everyone and everything around him as shameful (and an 8 year old knows). What can he do about it? What does it turn into as he develops? And then everyone in and out of his own community is calling him a knucklehead. It takes a pretty extraordinary kid to buck that trend. All others? Not a shot in the world.

The only upside to segregation was that a poor kid could live down the street or attend church with educated profeesionals and he could see what was possible. He could believe it was attainable. For kids today, it's about as realistic as life on the moon.

So, have your rant, cluck your teeth, complain about what parents aren't doing. But know that you're joining in on the downward pull. I'm glad someone with real influence is trying to do something and, from what I read in the press release, the effort is designed to come from the communities where these kids live. So you can sit in the comfort of your home and not have a hair on your head bothered about it. And if it's one less kid who might be knocking you over the head, be glad for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the "discipline reform" piece. I certainly agree there are better ways that discipline can and should be handled but there are a hundred ways to NOT do it. Certainly there do need to be interventions and probably things like mentoring, counseling and other supports to deal with disruptive behavior and other things, rather than just leaping to suspensions but I am a bit concerned about the evident reluctance to escalate more serious issues. When there are things like violence, threats of violence, property damage or theft - basically anything in the criminal code - those accordingly need to be dealt with in a serious manner.

I don't fundamentally disagree, but the discipline that black boys are subject to in the educational system is, on the aggregate, harsher than other populations of students. Black boys and young men are nine percent of the total school population, but one-quarter of all physical punishments meted out in schools are to black boys and young men.

"Physical punishment?" What is this, 1950, when the principal had a paddle?

As for your statistics, you are assuming the numbers should be commensurate, but studies show that there are significantly greater rates of violence and aggression among at-risk African American youth than among most other youth demographics. It's not as though most of the kids receiving discipline are sitting there sweetly, innocently, quietly and attentively following the teacher's direction to the letter, only to be singled out and sent to the principal for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Very true. The fact that this program or the need for it is actually being debated is making my head spin!

The REASON black men fill prisons at an alarming rate, have a sky high unemployment rate, have a higher rate of drug/alcohol abuse, are have babies without supporting them, drop out of school at higher rates, etc. stems from a past where they were made to feel inferior, had rights taken away and were subjected to systematic and targeted rules to ensure a bottom feeder position. Come on folks, my parents went to a black only high school and had to use the old middle school books from the white kids who were 4 years younger. Once they graduated, there were no jobs for them (because they were black and not educated as well as white kids). I experienced difficulty in school with parents who did not understand how to help me and had no money to hire tutors. Education was and remains unequal. Black boys are incarcerated far more than any other group for the SAME offenses. There are cases all the time citing the unfairness... no question there. The court system was and remains unequal. Black boys were made to sit in back of buses, use different fountains, were hung... not too long ago folks and the scars are still there. We see the effects of this today.

But here's what REALLY gets me upset...

Instead of saying "Oh my goodness, how could we let this happen to this group of young boys. Most of them can't read at grade level. Most of them drop out of school. Most of them do not have fathers. Most of them have a parent or parents who got little to no education. Most of them are suffering psychologically and have low self esteem. We need to DO SOMETHING."

You question a program to help these kids who have obviously not be given what they need since the cycle repeats.

YET... I recently read a post on DCUM talking about the unfortunate deaths of a few high school kids over the past 4 years. Someone said it was an epidemic and we have to do something!

I do want to help everyone (especially kids) BUT I'm sick of people ACCEPTING that black boys are suppose to drop out of school, kill each other, go to prison FAR MORE than any other group.

And you know what... President Obama said that there are some programs that are WORKING!! That means there's a solution to the problem. Yes, a solution! One that doesn't even require tax payer money. That means that you don't have to pay for it.

So, why did this thread arise that questions this program???

Unbelievable. This is the lowest level I've ever seen DCUM go and it's been pretty low.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now. We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.