Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:29     Subject: Re:Extra time on tests
Np here. Yes, this is exactly what I think. Especially when the "LD" is uncovered for the first time in a teen's academic career right Newfie the PSAT and other high-stakes tests that win you awards, placement, and college entrance. How was this "LD" really not uncovered before 10th grade?


I have an LD that wasn't uncovered until college. Why? Because I was smart, got As and Bs, got a 30 on the ACT, and was intelligent enough to cope because I was "smart enough" and did "well enough". The academic demands really ratchet up towards the end of high school and beginning of college, and you take more standardized tests. It makes perfect sense when someone who has developed coping skills, and been working at a disadvantage might really fall behind when the demands on you really increase.

I'm sure some people do game the system, but some very intelligent kids do go undetected until 10th grade or even freshman/sophomore year of high school. Especially for executive functioning disorders, non-verbal learning disability, and milder forms of dyslexia that don't completely interfere with being able to perform in school, but just require the student to work harder. For example, someone might have a form of dyslexia that they were able to overcome without intervention, but might take twice as long to read instructions on an exam, and thus have less time to answer the problem/concept that the test is designed to evaluate. Basically, if you are smart enough, you can slip through the cracks. Usually these students are working twice as hard as everyone else until the issue is detected. You can imagine that at schools that have 3-4 hours of homework a night, this can easily turn into 6-7, which is unsustainable.

When my LD was uncovered, it allowed me to pass classes that were not in my strength, and excel subjects I was good at instead of getting Bs/B+s. It is in part about allowing the student to achieve to the highest level THEY can achieve.

As far as the process goes to get evaluated, you have a very intensive testing with a psychologist that takes a long time and have all the appropriate documentation. It's not like you just tell the school "I have an LD"--you have to go through and foreword the medical records, and get all the official paperwork through. It is especially difficult and a pain in the butt as far as documentation to get extended time for standardized tests like the PSAT, SAT, and GRE.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:26     Subject: Re:Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I imagine different schools vary in their approach to accommodations. Schools should, IMO, have a clear policy about accommodations and should provide them only in the case of a documented disability.

In general, a specific learning disability such as dyslexia or dysgraphia makes it very difficult for a child to perform at his or her intellectual potential without accommodations and remediation. An LD can only be diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, preferably as part of an in-depth evaluation. The results of such assessments are fully quantifiable and can guide remediation and accommodations. This is the kind of documented learning disability that can require accommodations to level the playing field. Do you really object to that? I guarantee you, a kid with dyslexia has plenty of barriers to overcome.

I suspect you are talking about ADHD, which is a different animal. I have no experience with that so I won't weigh in on it.


Okay, agreed. But what if all the extra-time assessment and permission requires is an in-school visit to a learning specialist, backed by a teacher's suggestion that there may be a problem, and a student's statement that they are having problems completing their exams successfully in the allotted time? I would prefer that these assessments be performed and "diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, preferably as part of an in-depth evaluation. The results of such assessments are fully quantifiable and can guide remediation and accommodations. This is the kind of documented learning disability that can require accommodations to level the playing field." If they are given out more liberally, then the true LD children will again find themselves at a testing disadvantage.


Exactly!
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:14     Subject: Re:Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I imagine different schools vary in their approach to accommodations. Schools should, IMO, have a clear policy about accommodations and should provide them only in the case of a documented disability.

In general, a specific learning disability such as dyslexia or dysgraphia makes it very difficult for a child to perform at his or her intellectual potential without accommodations and remediation. An LD can only be diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, preferably as part of an in-depth evaluation. The results of such assessments are fully quantifiable and can guide remediation and accommodations. This is the kind of documented learning disability that can require accommodations to level the playing field. Do you really object to that? I guarantee you, a kid with dyslexia has plenty of barriers to overcome.

I suspect you are talking about ADHD, which is a different animal. I have no experience with that so I won't weigh in on it.


Okay, agreed. But what if all the extra-time assessment and permission requires is an in-school visit to a learning specialist, backed by a teacher's suggestion that there may be a problem, and a student's statement that they are having problems completing their exams successfully in the allotted time? I would prefer that these assessments be performed and "diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, preferably as part of an in-depth evaluation. The results of such assessments are fully quantifiable and can guide remediation and accommodations. This is the kind of documented learning disability that can require accommodations to level the playing field." If they are given out more liberally, then the true LD children will again find themselves at a testing disadvantage.


14:03 here. My DDs school did require a licensed psych exam, as does the College Board. In fact despite my DD having been diagnosed with various LDs and ADHD in 2nd grade she was initially rejected by the College Board and we had to have additional testing done as part of the appeal.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:10     Subject: Re:Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:I imagine different schools vary in their approach to accommodations. Schools should, IMO, have a clear policy about accommodations and should provide them only in the case of a documented disability.

In general, a specific learning disability such as dyslexia or dysgraphia makes it very difficult for a child to perform at his or her intellectual potential without accommodations and remediation. An LD can only be diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, preferably as part of an in-depth evaluation. The results of such assessments are fully quantifiable and can guide remediation and accommodations. This is the kind of documented learning disability that can require accommodations to level the playing field. Do you really object to that? I guarantee you, a kid with dyslexia has plenty of barriers to overcome.

I suspect you are talking about ADHD, which is a different animal. I have no experience with that so I won't weigh in on it.


Okay, agreed. But what if all the extra-time assessment and permission requires is an in-school visit to a learning specialist, backed by a teacher's suggestion that there may be a problem, and a student's statement that they are having problems completing their exams successfully in the allotted time? I would prefer that these assessments be performed and "diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, preferably as part of an in-depth evaluation. The results of such assessments are fully quantifiable and can guide remediation and accommodations. This is the kind of documented learning disability that can require accommodations to level the playing field." If they are given out more liberally, then the true LD children will again find themselves at a testing disadvantage.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:06     Subject: Re:Extra time on tests
I imagine different schools vary in their approach to accommodations. Schools should, IMO, have a clear policy about accommodations and should provide them only in the case of a documented disability.

In general, a specific learning disability such as dyslexia or dysgraphia makes it very difficult for a child to perform at his or her intellectual potential without accommodations and remediation. An LD can only be diagnosed by a licensed psychologist, preferably as part of an in-depth evaluation. The results of such assessments are fully quantifiable and can guide remediation and accommodations. This is the kind of documented learning disability that can require accommodations to level the playing field. Do you really object to that? I guarantee you, a kid with dyslexia has plenty of barriers to overcome.

I suspect you are talking about ADHD, which is a different animal. I have no experience with that so I won't weigh in on it.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:04     Subject: Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You realize that students with LDs or ADHD can be very smart, right?


Sure. I'm questioning the need for extra time in some cases.


Why does it matter to you?
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:03     Subject: Re:Extra time on tests
My DC got extra time on tests (and standardized tests). She has a whole range of issues that I am happy to share if the OP is truly interested. Even with extra time she tends to perform lower on tests and exams than on other work in the class. As to extra time on the SATs - well sure it's great, until you are in your 6th hour of the test and totally worn out. Same goes for extra time in school - my DD often had to give up lunch and stay after school in order to actually get the extra time. It's especially a challenge when there are multiple tests in a day, which seemed to happen routinely at her school. It's no picnic, I promise.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 14:02     Subject: Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:I was a very slow test taker in high school, college, and graduate school who frequently did not have quite enough time to finish an exam -- and would therefore earn an A-/B+, instead of an A.

My child is a straight A student (only two A-s) at their top private high school. In one of the classes where my child earned an A-, s/he was having trouble with the exams, and the teacher suggested that they visit the learning coordinator to get approved for additional time on the exams.

Apparently, it must be easier than most people think to get approved for the extra time on exams, if a teacher at a top private school was making this recommendation to an otherwise A student who was in "danger" of falling into an A- grade.

We did not allow our child to pursue that option, but I can see where the OP might be worried that it is not simply being reserved for standard LDs anymore.


Same poster, now I wish that we had known about this "processing" issue, which may very well be what I had in a mild form (I had to repeatedly read the questions and text) and/or what the teacher saw in my child (who does the same thing). The extra time would have certainly helped her on the PSAT exam, where they missed NMSF cutoff by one point in DC.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 13:57     Subject: Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why is it that the kids that qualify for extra time on tests get among the best grades in the class at DC's school? What are the criteria for qualification for LD students?


OP, if you ask the criteria on the Special Needs board you might get more specific/technically correct responses. I expect many of those who qualify have a processing issue.


Yep. And if you struggle with a processing issue, you know how real it is and you know that you are not overly advantaged.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 13:56     Subject: Extra time on tests
I was a very slow test taker in high school, college, and graduate school who frequently did not have quite enough time to finish an exam -- and would therefore earn an A-/B+, instead of an A.

My child is a straight A student (only two A-s) at their top private high school. In one of the classes where my child earned an A-, s/he was having trouble with the exams, and the teacher suggested that they visit the learning coordinator to get approved for additional time on the exams.

Apparently, it must be easier than most people think to get approved for the extra time on exams, if a teacher at a top private school was making this recommendation to an otherwise A student who was in "danger" of falling into an A- grade.

We did not allow our child to pursue that option, but I can see where the OP might be worried that it is not simply being reserved for standard LDs anymore.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 13:54     Subject: Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:Why is it that the kids that qualify for extra time on tests get among the best grades in the class at DC's school? What are the criteria for qualification for LD students?


OP, if you ask the criteria on the Special Needs board you might get more specific/technically correct responses. I expect many of those who qualify have a processing issue.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 13:50     Subject: Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:If you really want to know more, try reading up on ADHD. It is a classic case. Many highly intelligent ADHD kids are not diagnosed until they are starting high school, especially boys. They get great A's in Elementary and their behavior is just passed off as being a boy, they get B's in middle school and they are thought to just be immature in behavior, by high school they are getting Cs. These kids are super intelligent, but can't get corresponding grades because they constantly forget to bring home books, lose things, and they can't focus. I am sure almost all of these kids would give up the extra time to feel normal.



This is very true. I never understood it until my two kids were diagnosed. They both have very high IQs consistently (in other words not using the test from entry to private school at 4 years old). They both struggle in different, but similar ways (one boy one girl). With medication and some accommodations, they are able to learn what they need to, and demonstrate their knowledge.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 13:45     Subject: Extra time on tests
If you really want to know more, try reading up on ADHD. It is a classic case. Many highly intelligent ADHD kids are not diagnosed until they are starting high school, especially boys. They get great A's in Elementary and their behavior is just passed off as being a boy, they get B's in middle school and they are thought to just be immature in behavior, by high school they are getting Cs. These kids are super intelligent, but can't get corresponding grades because they constantly forget to bring home books, lose things, and they can't focus. I am sure almost all of these kids would give up the extra time to feel normal.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 13:44     Subject: Extra time on tests
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You realize that students with LDs or ADHD can be very smart, right?


Sure. I'm questioning the need for extra time in some cases.


Well stop questioning. Are you seriously jealous that someone's kid has an LD? Do you seriously think people are gaming the system, pretending to be LD? You may as well complain about handicapped parking preference while you are at it. Not sure if all parents of LD kids are the same as I am, but I can tell you I would trade anything to not have my kid suffer the way he does. The unbelievable amount of time and emotional support it takes from everyone in the family, plus the incredible expense and time of professional support...it is all so draining and it is a huge part of our lives every day. So, please, please get over yourself and be grateful that your DC is healthy.


If you really want to know more, try reading up on ADHD. It is a classic case. Many highly intelligent ADHD kids are not diagnosed until they are starting high school, especially boys. They get great A's in Elementary and their behavior is just passed off as being a boy, they get B's in middle school and they are thought to just be immature in behavior, by high school they are getting Cs. These kids are super intelligent, but can't get corresponding grades because they constantly forget to bring home books, lose things, and they can't focus. I am sure almost all of these kids would give up the extra time to feel normal.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2014 13:37     Subject: Re:Extra time on tests
To the original OP - it's because the kids with LD's who can succeed in a competitive private school are super smart. With the accommodations, their grades and scores are consistent with their intelligence. Without the accommodations, they would be underperforming. That does not strike me as somehow more fair.