I use Orijen, and I supplement it only with salmon oil (from costco, amazon), it makes wonders for the coat and my dog loves it (just a little bit over kibble).

Dental sticks to help keep teeth clean (debatable whether they help, but again dog loves it).

and, since orijen is high protein, annual checkup to make sure kidneys are fine (was told by vet to do this)

Many vets know surprisingly little about nutrition. A lot of their information comes from what is pushed by the major pet food manuacturers like you guessed it Hills, Purina etc. I totally trust my vet with my dogs' medical issues. I do not take nutrition advice from her ever since she wanted to give one of my dogs Hills Science Diet. Most regular vets are also against raw. It takes more effort to feed a balanced raw diet but a lot of people do it successfully and have happy healthy dogs to show for it.

A lot of vets also don't recommend feeding Purina, Science Diet, etc. but something like Orjen is well balanced nutritionally with high quality ingredients and little filler. You totally can feed your dog a balanced raw diet, although I still stand that raw meat has similar pathogen concerns that we have when humans eat raw meat. But mostly, you are likely the exception to the rule if you truly do give your dog a balanced raw diet--a lot of people just are not the greatest judge of what good canine nutrition is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, yeah, when your dog's ancestors lived in the wild they ate raw food, and so did your apelike hominid ancestor.

That doesn't make raw food "like they had in the wild" appropriate for your dog who is the result of hundreds of generations of domestication any more than you'd be healthy living on what proto-humans ate.

Modern dog food is actually designed for the nutritional needs of the domesticated dog.

The "back to nature raw food" thing is a human bias.

What is your source for this wisdom? Advertisements from Science Diet, Purina etc?

My dog's vet when I asked about the whole "raw food" thing.

Many vets know surprisingly little about nutrition. A lot of their information comes from what is pushed by the major pet food manuacturers like you guessed it Hills, Purina etc. I totally trust my vet with my dogs' medical issues. I do not take nutrition advice from her ever since she wanted to give one of my dogs Hills Science Diet. Most regular vets are also against raw. It takes more effort to feed a balanced raw diet but a lot of people do it successfully and have happy healthy dogs to show for it.

If you let your dog chew on a marrow bone it cleans their teeth. Perfectly. You can buy them at the grocery store in the meat section and cook them yourself. Dogs love 'em and it makes their teeth sparkle.

OP, would you like to eat crackers day in, day out and nothing else? I wouldn't. We give our dog lots of table scraps. Seems only fair.

Anonymous wrote:Well, I have a cat and not a dog so my information might be different. I have an 8 yr old cat that I've had about 6 yrs and primarily fed dry food until a couple of months ago but did give her wet food as an occasional treat. My cat became obese from the dry food and the vet said to limit it to 1/3 c a day and give one small can of wet food a day. She said it's better for the kidneys, that the issue w/ the teeth is a myth because in the wild they'd be eating mostly wet food in the form of freshly killed animals, and they do get dehydrated from eating kibble because they are designed to get most of their water from their food not by drinking it. I don't know if dogs might be different in this regard, but it's definitely worth asking a vet about because on this forum you'll get a lot of misinformation (but you might also get some good information.)

Your cat could have gotten obese because eating exclusively kibble probably didn't supply her body with what she needed, forcing her to eat more and more and more to try to feel satisfied. I have a dog and a cat and I believe a varied diet is best -- and makes them the happiest. They have kibble in the bowl all day long but don't eat it compulsively because they get other, more delicious and nutritious food too. My two cents.

My vet said that wet food was bad for my dog's teeth.

Anonymous wrote:Sure, dogs are genetically close to wolves . But we can see in human populations that lactose intolerance is far more common in Asian cultures than in Scandinavia. However, most scientists say racial differences are genetically negligible-yet that tiny difference is enough to require slightly different dietary needs. I'd hazard a guess that the optimal dietary needs of a pug will differ from a wolf.

well you mentioned perhaps one of the most trait modified dog there is, so yeah. And in your example suppose there were pups that could tolerate lactose. That doesn't mean they need it for nutritional health. It would just be an another food source.
There is no parallel "meat intolerance" in dogs. But your point is taken, modern food is a more efficient delivery system for multiple vitamins and minerals than raw diet. But 'raw' proponents are sufficiently compulsive to assure that Fido will manually receive the same individual supplements, only in a raw state. No one is just feeding their dogs a hunk of beef and calling it a day.

Not all kibble is created equal...just compare the top four ingredients in Purina or Science Diet with those in Orijen.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AsBcSQ8_xK_ndDRkYWo3NmRSWEl4T1NuX290bG5ULVE

Sure, dogs are genetically close to wolves . But we can see in human populations that lactose intolerance is far more common in Asian cultures than in Scandinavia. However, most scientists say racial differences are genetically negligible-yet that tiny difference is enough to require slightly different dietary needs. I'd hazard a guess that the optimal dietary needs of a pug will differ from a wolf.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, yeah, when your dog's ancestors lived in the wild they ate raw food, and so did your apelike hominid ancestor.

That doesn't make raw food "like they had in the wild" appropriate for your dog who is the result of hundreds of generations of domestication any more than you'd be healthy living on what proto-humans ate.

Modern dog food is actually designed for the nutritional needs of the domesticated dog.

The "back to nature raw food" thing is a human bias.

What is your source for this wisdom? Advertisements from Science Diet, Purina etc?

My dog's vet when I asked about the whole "raw food" thing.

Dogs can reproduce with wolves--structurally, genetically, dogs are incredibly close to their wolf ancestor, regardless of domestication.

Honestly, the main flaw I see with "wild dogs in savannah eat raw food so it is more 'natural'" is that a) wild dogs don't live as long as domesticated dogs, particularly those in first world countries who see the vet and are fed properly and b) raw meat and vegetables are humans feed the dogs are domesticated strains wildly unlike what some wild dog would find in the savannah. I agree with the pp who pointed out dogs have been domesticated for a long time and are no more like wild dogs in the savannah that we are like ancient hominids. Dogs also benefit from cooked meat as people do due to decreased pathogens. That said, a raw or homemade diet can be fine, but most people have neither the time nor the expertise in canine nutrition to provide any real nutritional benefit to a high quality kibble. If you feed your dog only kibble, make sure it is a kibble without a lot of filler, artificial colors, and salt (something like kibble and bits is the dog equivalent of a McDonalds cheeseburger, and Purina, Science Diet, iambs, and the like are not the greatest either). If you want a kibble that isn't too expensive that had pretty high quality ingredients, my mom's vet recommends the Costco Kirkland brand. My vet always checks with us on what brand of dog food we feed our dog and has had no complaints about the brands we choose (usually Costco brand, occasionally something like buffalo blue).

You can ask the vet if the puppy is allowed to have bones for chewing.
We give our adult dogs beef marrow bones every now and then for dental health, but I don't know what a puppy is able to have.