9:53 No wonder your kid is at Eastern. You are one very smart and articulate mom.

Anonymous wrote:Well, not to get off track, but that whole slap ass thing was so overblown here on DCUM.

It's a middle school and kids do stupid things. The admin found out about it, communicated with parents, laid down the law to kids, end of story.

I have seen similar things at my other child's middle school -- kids make inappropriate decisions and MS boys can act like fools. But to pull your child out of the program for that? Ridiculous.

I know someone is going to post about "my child felt threatened" etc., but I can't help believe if it were upper middle class white boys coming up with this, parents would not have reacted so strongly.

"The admin found out about it, communicated with the parents, laid down the law to kids, end of story."

I am an Eastern parent, and I just want to be clear that I don't think your description is an accurate reflection of what happened at Eastern with regard to the "Slap Ass" weeks. Yes, I say "weeks" plural. These incidents happened at least three times -- once in the fall of 2011, again in the spring of 2012 and again in the 2012-2013 school year. Each time dozens of kids were involved. Parents were only notified via the listserv about the first incident, and maybe the second, but definitely not the third. The listserv only reaches about 1/3 of the school population at max. No letters were ever sent home to the entire parent population. These incidents never appeared on subsequent school safety and security reports that are made public.

Clearly, since these incidents occurred multiple times over a long period of time, the principal did not, IMO, "lay down the law" to the kids. Nor was it "end of story."

If a woman had to go to work every day in the environment that my DD has reported at school, you can bet that corporation would be sued for sexual harassment. If someone slapped the ass of a female staffer on the way to the office staff meeting, the slapper would be fired for that behavior. These kinds of behaviors are absolutely forbidden in our work environment; why would we expect anything less for our daughters (and in some cases, sons) at school? I absolutely understand the parents who pulled their girl children from the program over this. Do I think it's right that they had to do that in order to have their child at a school where they felt like they could learn without having to endure unwanted sexual contact? No. But, I do know it is not uncommon for people who experience these kinds of events to feel unsafe in the same environment, particularly when they feel that the incidents have gone (or will go) unpunished. Calling that "ridiculous" is victim-blaming.

You have introduced race into this story ("I can't help believe if it were upper middle class white boys coming up with this, parents would not have reacted so strongly.") I can honestly say that at no time have I ever heard anyone at the school (including, to their credit, the EMS staff) ask about the race of the perpetrators or victims. To this day, I have no idea what races were involved. It is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Finally, kids do make inappropriate decisions and boys (and girls) do act like fools at this age. That may be an argument for more "education" and a punishment that is less than "conviction" or "expulsion," but it is not an argument for diminishing the seriousness of these events or minimizing the impact they have. Nor is it relevant that these incidents happen at other schools -- that is only goes to show that this is an issue that needs to be addressed system-wide by MCPS.

Anonymous wrote:I went through it as a kid. Met some of the smartest people I've ever known there, many former classmates went to Ivy league and have great careers or are very successful artists. Downside is, at least when I was there, there was grade deflation, it was really hard to get good grades. And also, a lot of the kids in the "regular school" were really.... puerile and... not really the best in terms of morals and behavior so your child will be exposed to that.

Actually, despite the positives, in retrospect I would've liked to go to private school like my siblings who got turned down from magnet.

Dd didn't apply to Roberto Clemento. We attended the Open House last year and were unimpressed and scared of the school to tell you the truth My daughter attends a beautiful private school that has a great peer group. While I am sure that the peer group would be more impressive at the magnet school, I'm not sure the teaching would be any better. If your child is bored to tears in the home school, I would consider the magnet for the peer group.

Another thing that influenced my decision was a coworker who pulled their child from the program after one year. The coworker believes sending his child to the magnet school was the single worst decision he's made as a parent.

OP I think you really need to know your kid. My daughter is smart but introverted. She wouldn't have been happy.

Well, not to get off track, but that whole slap ass thing was so overblown here on DCUM.

It's a middle school and kids do stupid things. The admin found out about it, communicated with parents, laid down the law to kids, end of story.

I have seen similar things at my other child's middle school -- kids make inappropriate decisions and MS boys can act like fools. But to pull your child out of the program for that? Ridiculous.

I know someone is going to post about "my child felt threatened" etc., but I can't help believe if it were upper middle class white boys coming up with this, parents would not have reacted so strongly.

Anonymous wrote:

It's not that I don't believe you; I'm just surprised that I haven't heard anything about this type of behavior at all. And my kid is an 8th grader, I know a lot of parents in the program ... also I don't know a single child who's left, so maybe I've just missed the whole thing.

Yes, you have missed things. My DC remembers girls whose parents moved them back to their home school after Slap Ass Week in 6th and 7th grade. By 8th grade, few leave because, having been through the hard part of the program, they want the reward of the NY trip.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just asked my Eastern eighth grader about the "fear and shame" thing. His response: He's never been made to feel fear and shame or seen anyone else treated that way. He said: You shouldn't go to Eastern if you're not willing to work hard, and sometimes it can be really hard, particularly the first semester of 7th grade when they do a large research paper. There are some teachers who are really strict and ask a lot of the kids. But you get through those parts and the rest is a lot of fun.

I have had many reports of the "fear and shame" approach from my child and from other children -- teachers who call the child stupid, who criticize the child for asking questions, who comment on girls' body (both too thin and too fat), and who discourage magnet students from being friendly with the comprehensive kids. I can't count the number of times I've heard a story about a kid who broke down in tears. At least once I have been concerned enough to consider whether I should mention the incident to the other child's parent. These tactics have been directed at my DC and my DC's peers, so I am speaking from personal experience.

Equating these kinds of stories with the idea that teachers are simply "strict" and just asking students to "work hard," is equal, IMO, to being complicit in bullying. I have no problem with strictness and working hard. My child is getting straight As. But, this kind of approach in teaching is unacceptable. IMO, it is allowed at Eastern because parents do not complain, and even when they do, the administration does nothing. Parents do not complain, because they don't hear enough about it from their kids, or they don't want to be seen as trouble-makers in the program and make kids' lives harder or get asked to leave.

OP, I'm glad you made the choice for Eastern. It is a good environment for smart girls (and boys) in many ways. But, keep the lines of communication open and speak up loudly when things are not going as they should. Expectations for teachers at Eastern are very different from those at Westland. Your instincts about the difference in environment between Westland and Eastern are correct, and you will need to have an ongoing discussion with your child to help manage this. Neither choice is a perfect one. You are choosing to gain some things and lose others. The same would be true if you chose Westland.

These are really serious accusations. Did you report them to anyone? Is it a specific teacher?

It's just hard to imagine that I wouldn't have heard anything about something like this from my very social and plugged-in DC ... and have also never heard of kids getting asked to leave because they are seen as "troublemakers." Well that's not totally true, but the case I'm thinking of was about 8 years ago and was a very specific case that was warranted, IMO.

Personally felt pressured to leave the school, which we felt was due to prior complaints. Won't say more because I don't not want to personally identify. Just because YOU haven't heard that it has happened, doesn't mean it is does not happen. When someone leaves it is generally attributed to the long commute" or alleged that they "couldn't handle the rigor of the program," but we know a number of people who have considered leaving due to the teaching/administrative atmosphere, and a few who actually have. Personally know, from speaking with other parents, about a number of complaints made to various administrators about this kind of teacher behavior. Many are related to one teacher, but it is not just one teacher.

It's not that I don't believe you; I'm just surprised that I haven't heard anything about this type of behavior at all. And my kid is an 8th grader, I know a lot of parents in the program ... also I don't know a single child who's left, so maybe I've just missed the whole thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just asked my Eastern eighth grader about the "fear and shame" thing. His response: He's never been made to feel fear and shame or seen anyone else treated that way. He said: You shouldn't go to Eastern if you're not willing to work hard, and sometimes it can be really hard, particularly the first semester of 7th grade when they do a large research paper. There are some teachers who are really strict and ask a lot of the kids. But you get through those parts and the rest is a lot of fun.

I have had many reports of the "fear and shame" approach from my child and from other children -- teachers who call the child stupid, who criticize the child for asking questions, who comment on girls' body (both too thin and too fat), and who discourage magnet students from being friendly with the comprehensive kids. I can't count the number of times I've heard a story about a kid who broke down in tears. At least once I have been concerned enough to consider whether I should mention the incident to the other child's parent. These tactics have been directed at my DC and my DC's peers, so I am speaking from personal experience.

Equating these kinds of stories with the idea that teachers are simply "strict" and just asking students to "work hard," is equal, IMO, to being complicit in bullying. I have no problem with strictness and working hard. My child is getting straight As. But, this kind of approach in teaching is unacceptable. IMO, it is allowed at Eastern because parents do not complain, and even when they do, the administration does nothing. Parents do not complain, because they don't hear enough about it from their kids, or they don't want to be seen as trouble-makers in the program and make kids' lives harder or get asked to leave.

OP, I'm glad you made the choice for Eastern. It is a good environment for smart girls (and boys) in many ways. But, keep the lines of communication open and speak up loudly when things are not going as they should. Expectations for teachers at Eastern are very different from those at Westland. Your instincts about the difference in environment between Westland and Eastern are correct, and you will need to have an ongoing discussion with your child to help manage this. Neither choice is a perfect one. You are choosing to gain some things and lose others. The same would be true if you chose Westland.

These are really serious accusations. Did you report them to anyone? Is it a specific teacher?

It's just hard to imagine that I wouldn't have heard anything about something like this from my very social and plugged-in DC ... and have also never heard of kids getting asked to leave because they are seen as "troublemakers." Well that's not totally true, but the case I'm thinking of was about 8 years ago and was a very specific case that was warranted, IMO.

Personally felt pressured to leave the school, which we felt was due to prior complaints. Won't say more because I don't not want to personally identify. Just because YOU haven't heard that it has happened, doesn't mean it is does not happen. When someone leaves it is generally attributed to the long commute" or alleged that they "couldn't handle the rigor of the program," but we know a number of people who have considered leaving due to the teaching/administrative atmosphere, and a few who actually have. Personally know, from speaking with other parents, about a number of complaints made to various administrators about this kind of teacher behavior. Many are related to one teacher, but it is not just one teacher.

I went through it as a kid. Met some of the smartest people I've ever known there, many former classmates went to Ivy league and have great careers or are very successful artists. Downside is, at least when I was there, there was grade deflation, it was really hard to get good grades. And also, a lot of the kids in the "regular school" were really.... puerile and... not really the best in terms of morals and behavior so your child will be exposed to that.

Actually, despite the positives, in retrospect I would've liked to go to private school like my siblings who got turned down from magnet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just asked my Eastern eighth grader about the "fear and shame" thing. His response: He's never been made to feel fear and shame or seen anyone else treated that way. He said: You shouldn't go to Eastern if you're not willing to work hard, and sometimes it can be really hard, particularly the first semester of 7th grade when they do a large research paper. There are some teachers who are really strict and ask a lot of the kids. But you get through those parts and the rest is a lot of fun.

I have had many reports of the "fear and shame" approach from my child and from other children -- teachers who call the child stupid, who criticize the child for asking questions, who comment on girls' body (both too thin and too fat), and who discourage magnet students from being friendly with the comprehensive kids. I can't count the number of times I've heard a story about a kid who broke down in tears. At least once I have been concerned enough to consider whether I should mention the incident to the other child's parent. These tactics have been directed at my DC and my DC's peers, so I am speaking from personal experience.

Equating these kinds of stories with the idea that teachers are simply "strict" and just asking students to "work hard," is equal, IMO, to being complicit in bullying. I have no problem with strictness and working hard. My child is getting straight As. But, this kind of approach in teaching is unacceptable. IMO, it is allowed at Eastern because parents do not complain, and even when they do, the administration does nothing. Parents do not complain, because they don't hear enough about it from their kids, or they don't want to be seen as trouble-makers in the program and make kids' lives harder or get asked to leave.

OP, I'm glad you made the choice for Eastern. It is a good environment for smart girls (and boys) in many ways. But, keep the lines of communication open and speak up loudly when things are not going as they should. Expectations for teachers at Eastern are very different from those at Westland. Your instincts about the difference in environment between Westland and Eastern are correct, and you will need to have an ongoing discussion with your child to help manage this. Neither choice is a perfect one. You are choosing to gain some things and lose others. The same would be true if you chose Westland.

These are really serious accusations. Did you report them to anyone? Is it a specific teacher?

It's just hard to imagine that I wouldn't have heard anything about something like this from my very social and plugged-in DC ... and have also never heard of kids getting asked to leave because they are seen as "troublemakers." Well that's not totally true, but the case I'm thinking of was about 8 years ago and was a very specific case that was warranted, IMO.

Anonymous wrote:I just asked my Eastern eighth grader about the "fear and shame" thing. His response: He's never been made to feel fear and shame or seen anyone else treated that way. He said: You shouldn't go to Eastern if you're not willing to work hard, and sometimes it can be really hard, particularly the first semester of 7th grade when they do a large research paper. There are some teachers who are really strict and ask a lot of the kids. But you get through those parts and the rest is a lot of fun.

I have had many reports of the "fear and shame" approach from my child and from other children -- teachers who call the child stupid, who criticize the child for asking questions, who comment on girls' body (both too thin and too fat), and who discourage magnet students from being friendly with the comprehensive kids. I can't count the number of times I've heard a story about a kid who broke down in tears. At least once I have been concerned enough to consider whether I should mention the incident to the other child's parent. These tactics have been directed at my DC and my DC's peers, so I am speaking from personal experience.

Equating these kinds of stories with the idea that teachers are simply "strict" and just asking students to "work hard," is equal, IMO, to being complicit in bullying. I have no problem with strictness and working hard. My child is getting straight As. But, this kind of approach in teaching is unacceptable. IMO, it is allowed at Eastern because parents do not complain, and even when they do, the administration does nothing. Parents do not complain, because they don't hear enough about it from their kids, or they don't want to be seen as trouble-makers in the program and make kids' lives harder or get asked to leave.

OP, I'm glad you made the choice for Eastern. It is a good environment for smart girls (and boys) in many ways. But, keep the lines of communication open and speak up loudly when things are not going as they should. Expectations for teachers at Eastern are very different from those at Westland. Your instincts about the difference in environment between Westland and Eastern are correct, and you will need to have an ongoing discussion with your child to help manage this. Neither choice is a perfect one. You are choosing to gain some things and lose others. The same would be true if you chose Westland.

I just asked my Eastern eighth grader about the "fear and shame" thing. His response: He's never been made to feel fear and shame or seen anyone else treated that way. He said: You shouldn't go to Eastern if you're not willing to work hard, and sometimes it can be really hard, particularly the first semester of 7th grade when they do a large research paper. There are some teachers who are really strict and ask a lot of the kids. But you get through those parts and the rest is a lot of fun.

Yay! Congrats, OP!!

OP here, Just a follow-up to thank you all again for taking the time to offer your impressions and experiences. We (finally) decided to give Eastern a shot. We feel fortunate that we were looking at two good options in the first place, but ultimately chose Eastern for the curriculum, the teachers (who seemed great when my husband met them), and the idea of a peer group comprised of other smart, book-loving girls.

I really wavered about the lack of art, but apparently kids can get creative through the many presentations. Also, we thought we can supplement her art education through weekend classes at the Natl Gallery or whatever, much more easily than we could ever replicate the enriched humanities curriculum. I was also heartened to hear (from many people) that math instruction is good there as well.

THanks again, all.