Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 14:00     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What if your kid questions another adult about something they should be respectful about though?

Adult: Jennifer, show June where to hang up her coat and put her shoes.
June: At my house we just hang out coats over the railing so that's where I put mine.
Adult: June, at our house coats go in the closet. Please take your coat and follow Jennifer. She will show you where to hang it up.
June: Why? It's just fine where it is.
Adult: June, I did not ask your opinion about whether your coat goes in the closet or not. Our house rules are that coats go in the closet. Please go with Jennifer and hang up your coat.
June: I still don't understand why I have to. My coat is not bothering anyone and when I leave I have to go get it back out again.

If I am the Adult and June is my kid's friend, guess who won't be invited back. My kid is older than 6 and I have seen a lot of Junes. I totally understand allowing your kid to push boundaries at home, but requiring children to follow rules and respect authority does not equal "blind obedience."
If I was a child at your house I would attack you. Full on psycho style. Just to ruffle your feathers.



So you aren't going to invite this child back? That seems awfully nuclear. Why not just mention something to her parents.

If you engage in a conversation about why, you end up giving your child negative attention and rewarding bad behavior. One sentence explanation and then stop talking.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 13:55     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:What if your kid questions another adult about something they should be respectful about though?

Adult: Jennifer, show June where to hang up her coat and put her shoes.
June: At my house we just hang out coats over the railing so that's where I put mine.
Adult: June, at our house coats go in the closet. Please take your coat and follow Jennifer. She will show you where to hang it up.
June: Why? It's just fine where it is.
Adult: June, I did not ask your opinion about whether your coat goes in the closet or not. Our house rules are that coats go in the closet. Please go with Jennifer and hang up your coat.
June: I still don't understand why I have to. My coat is not bothering anyone and when I leave I have to go get it back out again.

If I am the Adult and June is my kid's friend, guess who won't be invited back. My kid is older than 6 and I have seen a lot of Junes. I totally understand allowing your kid to push boundaries at home, but requiring children to follow rules and respect authority does not equal "blind obedience."



So you aren't going to invite this child back? That seems awfully nuclear. Why not just mention something to her parents.

If you engage in a conversation about why, you end up giving your child negative attention and rewarding bad behavior. One sentence explanation and then stop talking.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 13:53     Subject: "Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Loosely borrowed from Blesssings of a skinned knee:

"No, you can't go to Johnny's afterschool."

"But why?"

Your reason: Because Johnny's dad is an alcoholic and I am fairly certain he isn't working today.

Your answer?

I know mine, which is "teach your kid that sometimes there will be no discussion, because some things are just too adult. You have plenty of other opportunities to teach respect, and plenty of ways to be authoritative rather than authoritarian."



OP again. Thanks for this example. I think in this scenario, most of us would agree that it's OK to say something like "because it's not a good day for Johnny's family." I also wouldn't mind my child asking this, as I think it's reasonable .... he had been looking forward to playing with his friend, and now he can't go.

I'm talking more about things like: "Edgar, put your shoes on. It's time to leave for school." "WHY SHOULD I?" !!!



For that crap, OP:

Because I said put your shoes on. Your kid obviously knows why, and the tone implied by the caps suggests an additional problem.

The connection between the two examples is that you really need to train your kid to just do it, and when they are going to push back, to do so quietly and politely and accept "because we'll talk about it later."

The reason I posted this is because those responding to you were speaking in generalities. Answers to "why do we have to leave the park now" could range from harmless to "not for kids ears" and your kids need to sometimes just do what you say.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 13:47     Subject: "Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
I like the because I said so approach. I personally say do it now or I will bust your ass.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 13:44     Subject: "Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
What do you think?


That's what I ask my kid when she goes through phases of being particularly question-y about everything. Why do you think that? What do you think we should be? Why do you think I asked you to do that?

Me: Pick up your coat please.
DD: Why?
Me: Why do you think I want you to pick up your coat?
DD: I don't know.
Me: You're a creative thinker. What's one reason you can imagine?
DD: Because it might get eaten.
Me: That's right! Godzilla might come rampaging into the house, see a delicious purple coat, and eat it right up!
DD: That's ridiculous.
Me: It is. But it's related to one reason I'd like you to pick up your coat.
DD: Because it'll get wrecked.
Me: Exactly. Though I like the idea of Godzilla eating it better. Thanks for picking up your coat.

The individual dialogue takes longer, but I think it short-circuits the phase because she knows I'm going to push her question back on her. The middle Godzilla part might be longer when she's feeling particularly contrary or non-existent as she gets to the end of the phase.

This approach might be far too annoying for some parent-kid combinations, but my kid is an "explain this to me, again. Again. Again. Again." kid, and this method short circuits that. It's the same approach, but more words, that you use with a 2 year old asking why. Why do you think caterpillars can't drive?


I like this approach. I would want to follow this approach whenever I can. But I can't imagine being able to have a discussion that long or longer in response to every requat I make.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 13:40     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What if your kid questions another adult about something they should be respectful about though?

Adult: Jennifer, show June where to hang up her coat and put her shoes.
June: At my house we just hang out coats over the railing so that's where I put mine.
Adult: June, at our house coats go in the closet. Please take your coat and follow Jennifer. She will show you where to hang it up.
June: Why? It's just fine where it is.
Adult: June, I did not ask your opinion about whether your coat goes in the closet or not. Our house rules are that coats go in the closet. Please go with Jennifer and hang up your coat.
June: I still don't understand why I have to. My coat is not bothering anyone and when I leave I have to go get it back out again.

If I am the Adult and June is my kid's friend, guess who won't be invited back. My kid is older than 6 and I have seen a lot of Junes. I totally understand allowing your kid to push boundaries at home, but requiring children to follow rules and respect authority does not equal "blind obedience."



I have never seen a kid argue with an adult (other than their parent or someone they are really close to) in this manner. I guess it can happen. But that's also a manners issue more than a respect issue, IMO. And the adult isn't being too polite in this scenario, either. Would you you that tone of voice/choice of words when discussing this with an adult guest?

I can see it more if the kid is jumping on the furniture, or throwing toys around in a way that would injure others or break the toys.


I have. Friends were so worried about their two kids blindly following directions of an adult that they told the kids the only adults they needed to obey were their parents. And off the kids go to visit the grandparents, to pre-school, art classes etc. and the kids are telling the adults, I don't have to do what you tell me because I don't have to listen to you.

Bottom line for me is that young kids should not be left unattended with adults who are not trusted completely, so you don't have to worry about the kids getting into trouble if they follow the directions of the adults around them. As children get older, you give them more leeway to question what they are told. I also would not allow my 4 year old son to "trust his instincts" since his instinct tell him that sleeping in the dark could result in his death.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 13:28     Subject: "Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Loosely borrowed from Blesssings of a skinned knee:

"No, you can't go to Johnny's afterschool."

"But why?"

Your reason: Because Johnny's dad is an alcoholic and I am fairly certain he isn't working today.

Your answer?

I know mine, which is "teach your kid that sometimes there will be no discussion, because some things are just too adult. You have plenty of other opportunities to teach respect, and plenty of ways to be authoritative rather than authoritarian."



OP again. Thanks for this example. I think in this scenario, most of us would agree that it's OK to say something like "because it's not a good day for Johnny's family." I also wouldn't mind my child asking this, as I think it's reasonable .... he had been looking forward to playing with his friend, and now he can't go.

I'm talking more about things like: "Edgar, put your shoes on. It's time to leave for school." "WHY SHOULD I?" !!!


Do you praise, thank, or reward good behavior? Do you thank him for getting out the door on time when he does do it? If one particular thing is a problem, like getting out the door in the mornings, use a rewards sticker chart. On time all week? He gets to pick dinner or something. I find "that" works far better in the long run than anything.

Sometimes they get fussy that way because every single aspect of their life is controlled and they are constantly being told what to do. If you think that's happening, try to find some things he can be in control of.

It might also be he just wants your attention. Some kids seek attention, be it good or bad. If you've been crazy busy, is there a way to set a little more kid time aside? If that's not it, I'd again ramp up on rewarding positive behavior. They want your attention and much prefer positive attention, like a hug for helping in the morning. Absent that feedback though, they will seek negative attention, too.

Be consistent though never cave on bedtimes or taking dishes to the kitchen. Give a little and they never look back?
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 13:02     Subject: "Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:Loosely borrowed from Blesssings of a skinned knee:

"No, you can't go to Johnny's afterschool."

"But why?"

Your reason: Because Johnny's dad is an alcoholic and I am fairly certain he isn't working today.

Your answer?

I know mine, which is "teach your kid that sometimes there will be no discussion, because some things are just too adult. You have plenty of other opportunities to teach respect, and plenty of ways to be authoritative rather than authoritarian."



OP again. Thanks for this example. I think in this scenario, most of us would agree that it's OK to say something like "because it's not a good day for Johnny's family." I also wouldn't mind my child asking this, as I think it's reasonable .... he had been looking forward to playing with his friend, and now he can't go.

I'm talking more about things like: "Edgar, put your shoes on. It's time to leave for school." "WHY SHOULD I?" !!!
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 12:46     Subject: "Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Loosely borrowed from Blesssings of a skinned knee:

"No, you can't go to Johnny's afterschool."

"But why?"

Your reason: Because Johnny's dad is an alcoholic and I am fairly certain he isn't working today.

Your answer?

I know mine, which is "teach your kid that sometimes there will be no discussion, because some things are just too adult. You have plenty of other opportunities to teach respect, and plenty of ways to be authoritative rather than authoritarian."

Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 12:39     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Challenging adults is just a developmental thing and DC will outgrow it. Until then, you're just going to have put up with it. There's no magic way to get kids to stop doing this.

Here's what I do with my two boys:

Tell DC that sometimes you just have to do what the boss says and you are the boss. Let DC ask questions or challenge, but put a limit on it. Ie. "You can ask me "Why?" once, but once I explain "Why?," and we talk about it, then you need to stop arguing. Don't argue with the boss. When you have moved out, you can do it your way! Yay, for being a grown-up!"




I'd add that I don't think asking "why" is bratty and I don't think getting an explanation is rewarding bratty behavior. I want my kids to question and understand, not blindly follow leaders. That said, sometimes they just have to do what the boss says.


NP. Sorry, but I don't think that respecting adults, especially parents, is "blindly following leaders."



Respect is earned, not just given. Teaching, rather than demanding, is a much better way to get that respect.


I "earned" my kids respect thby carrying them for 9 months, pushing them out, allowing them to suck the life out of me and keeping them helathy and alive for 9 years. They owe me respect at this point as I have done nothing to warrant them "questioning" me ad nauseum when they just don't want to do something. This isn't about "learning" why, its a delay tactic and a pain in the ass. Adults who tolerate it are the problem. The kids are just the symptom.


It's not all about you, though. They are human beings, too. And they are kids, which means they can't be expected to know everything adults know or show the same type of adult judgment in any given situation. And yes, they are learning. What lesson are you teaching them? Obedience? Likely. Respect? I don't know. Your paragraph doesn't sound like a very admirable way to interact with someone.

Discussing and teaching aren't signs, per se, that an adult is "tolerating" certain behavior from their kids. They are just working though it in a different way than you choose to. And yes, there are parents who set no expected standards of behavior for their kids, and that is a problem. But teaching discipline though discussion is not synonymous with that.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 12:24     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Challenging adults is just a developmental thing and DC will outgrow it. Until then, you're just going to have put up with it. There's no magic way to get kids to stop doing this.

Here's what I do with my two boys:

Tell DC that sometimes you just have to do what the boss says and you are the boss. Let DC ask questions or challenge, but put a limit on it. Ie. "You can ask me "Why?" once, but once I explain "Why?," and we talk about it, then you need to stop arguing. Don't argue with the boss. When you have moved out, you can do it your way! Yay, for being a grown-up!"




I'd add that I don't think asking "why" is bratty and I don't think getting an explanation is rewarding bratty behavior. I want my kids to question and understand, not blindly follow leaders. That said, sometimes they just have to do what the boss says.


NP. Sorry, but I don't think that respecting adults, especially parents, is "blindly following leaders."



Respect is earned, not just given. Teaching, rather than demanding, is a much better way to get that respect.


I "earned" my kids respect thby carrying them for 9 months, pushing them out, allowing them to suck the life out of me and keeping them helathy and alive for 9 years. They owe me respect at this point as I have done nothing to warrant them "questioning" me ad nauseum when they just don't want to do something. This isn't about "learning" why, its a delay tactic and a pain in the ass. Adults who tolerate it are the problem. The kids are just the symptom.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 12:20     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:What if your kid questions another adult about something they should be respectful about though?

Adult: Jennifer, show June where to hang up her coat and put her shoes.
June: At my house we just hang out coats over the railing so that's where I put mine.
Adult: June, at our house coats go in the closet. Please take your coat and follow Jennifer. She will show you where to hang it up.
June: Why? It's just fine where it is.
Adult: June, I did not ask your opinion about whether your coat goes in the closet or not. Our house rules are that coats go in the closet. Please go with Jennifer and hang up your coat.
June: I still don't understand why I have to. My coat is not bothering anyone and when I leave I have to go get it back out again.

If I am the Adult and June is my kid's friend, guess who won't be invited back. My kid is older than 6 and I have seen a lot of Junes. I totally understand allowing your kid to push boundaries at home, but requiring children to follow rules and respect authority does not equal "blind obedience."



I have never seen a kid argue with an adult (other than their parent or someone they are really close to) in this manner. I guess it can happen. But that's also a manners issue more than a respect issue, IMO. And the adult isn't being too polite in this scenario, either. Would you you that tone of voice/choice of words when discussing this with an adult guest?

I can see it more if the kid is jumping on the furniture, or throwing toys around in a way that would injure others or break the toys.
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 12:18     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:What if your kid questions another adult about something they should be respectful about though?

Adult: Jennifer, show June where to hang up her coat and put her shoes.
June: At my house we just hang out coats over the railing so that's where I put mine.
Adult: June, at our house coats go in the closet. Please take your coat and follow Jennifer. She will show you where to hang it up.
June: Why? It's just fine where it is.
Adult: June, I did not ask your opinion about whether your coat goes in the closet or not. Our house rules are that coats go in the closet. Please go with Jennifer and hang up your coat.
June: I still don't understand why I have to. My coat is not bothering anyone and when I leave I have to go get it back out again.

If I am the Adult and June is my kid's friend, guess who won't be invited back. My kid is older than 6 and I have seen a lot of Junes. I totally understand allowing your kid to push boundaries at home, but requiring children to follow rules and respect authority does not equal "blind obedience."



OP here and I completely agree with this. Those of you who allow your 6 year olds to "question" adults like this must have real little terrors on your hands!
Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 11:49     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
What if your kid questions another adult about something they should be respectful about though?

Adult: Jennifer, show June where to hang up her coat and put her shoes.
June: At my house we just hang out coats over the railing so that's where I put mine.
Adult: June, at our house coats go in the closet. Please take your coat and follow Jennifer. She will show you where to hang it up.
June: Why? It's just fine where it is.
Adult: June, I did not ask your opinion about whether your coat goes in the closet or not. Our house rules are that coats go in the closet. Please go with Jennifer and hang up your coat.
June: I still don't understand why I have to. My coat is not bothering anyone and when I leave I have to go get it back out again.

If I am the Adult and June is my kid's friend, guess who won't be invited back. My kid is older than 6 and I have seen a lot of Junes. I totally understand allowing your kid to push boundaries at home, but requiring children to follow rules and respect authority does not equal "blind obedience."

Anonymous
Post 01/31/2014 11:39     Subject: Re:"Because I'm Your Mother and I Said So!"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Challenging adults is just a developmental thing and DC will outgrow it. Until then, you're just going to have put up with it. There's no magic way to get kids to stop doing this.

Here's what I do with my two boys:

Tell DC that sometimes you just have to do what the boss says and you are the boss. Let DC ask questions or challenge, but put a limit on it. Ie. "You can ask me "Why?" once, but once I explain "Why?," and we talk about it, then you need to stop arguing. Don't argue with the boss. When you have moved out, you can do it your way! Yay, for being a grown-up!"




I'd add that I don't think asking "why" is bratty and I don't think getting an explanation is rewarding bratty behavior. I want my kids to question and understand, not blindly follow leaders. That said, sometimes they just have to do what the boss says.


NP. Sorry, but I don't think that respecting adults, especially parents, is "blindly following leaders."


See...but there is the rub. It is a delicate balance. My kids are older than 6, but I have always taken the position that I do not want the "respect adults" mantra to always trump my kid's intuition about a situation. I do not want my kids to "respect adults" if it is a situation that they are legitimately uncomfortable with. I want them to question and second guess. Now, as their parent, I KNOW when they are stalling and BSing and I can deal with that accordingly. But I generally am ok with them wanting to understand why I have taken a certain poisition.


+1 you have to start at an early age. So 6yo can question adults and should.