Anonymous
01/29/2014 17:55
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
FS kids may be messed up but DS kids are down to earth and held accountable. DS parent here, most of the FS kids we encounter are entitled brats. Maybe it is because we're prior military and not raised with silver spoons. Our kids assimilate really well stateside and abroad.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 17:54
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
Anonymous wrote:You can spend nothing overseas and amass a a huge savings. Most I know have 100s of thousands in cash in just a few years.
This
Anonymous
01/29/2014 17:31
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
I love the expat community. It really does not matter what your education is or your background or what position you hold. Everyone is welcomed. The au pair and the high class engineer and the teacher and the university student and the bored frustrated house wife
Anonymous
01/29/2014 17:08
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
Anonymous wrote:I am a U.S. diplomat. Here are some benefits that some of us enjoy.
1. Post differential or hardship pay. This is 5-35% more than your base pay.
2. Danger pay. This can be 5-40% of base pay as well. So those working in places like Afghanistan get nearly double their base salary.
3. Travel benefits. Free plane ticket each year to the U.S. or a nearby vacation spot of your choice. Worth about $1,500+ per traveler.
4. Home leave. This is an extra 15 days of vacation time for each year you live overseas.
5. Per diem. Some of us travel 5-50% of the time. This means we get about $100/day for food and misc expenses. And our hotel is reimbursed. Some of us become gold/platinum members which means free drinks and snacks. And we keep the hotel and airline points. For a 5 night trip, the hotel and airline points alone can be worth $50-$250.
6. I estimate our foreign service pension to be worth about $25,000 per year of work.
7. I estimate the 401K matching to be worth $4,000-$6,000 per year.
8. Health benefits are good, comparable to most large companies. We have access to an embassy medical unit. Assuming about 5 free visits per year, and this is worth about $500 per year. Sometimes, we get basic medicines for free. If you are pregnant overseas, you get lots of money to deliver in the U.S.
9. Education benefits. If your kids are learning disabled or advanced, you can receive extra money to help them. You have an allowance to attend a top private school in your country. Some people send their kids to boarding schools in Europe. Benefit is worth up to $50,000 per child, but usually it is less.
10. Housing allowance: Worth up to $30,000/year. We rent our U.S. home when we live overseas.
11. Security: We get free security services since many of these places are dangerous.
12. Holidays. We enjoy about 10 federal and 10 local holidays each year.
13. Moving allowance: We can ship our household goods and 1 car. At the end of our tour, some people sell their things at cost. So you can drive a car for 1-4 years without paying for depreciation. In the U.S. the same car would be worth $5,000 less.
Have I forgotten any other benefits? There are LOTS of sacrifices too and maybe I'll write about that next.
Is this too generous or not generous enough given the hardships? Some people envy us, but many know that they can't make the sacrifices needed to enjoy the above benefits.
As you can imagine, some of us save and become millionaires. Some of us can easily spend it all and then some.
They are pretty reasonable, considering the danger and impact on family. The private sector pays more for less dangerous gigs.
The problem is that the soldiers get paid so little.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 16:51
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
Anonymous wrote:OP. What was the point of you post to begin with? And you left out education allowances - $20 - $50K per year per kid. Is this excessive too? What are we supposed to do? Pay out of pocket for private?
You sound exactly like the spoiled FS families I knew while we lived in Asia, with kids. Do you know how many American and expat families have to pay their own tuition? It's a myth that all expats have massive salaries and special packages. These FS families seemed way more out of touch with the locals, and were a constant source of ridicule. In our country they lived in gated communities outside city center, and whenever I trekked out to visit friends, I could hear them gloriously bitching about their domestic help. So many of them were downright distrustful of the locals, thinking of "us v them." I think these benefits hinder the work they do overseas, and as a taxpayer, I am against a lot of them. It's also so environmentally unfriendly. FSOs were shipping cars and Amazon packages all the time. So wasteful and unnecessary.
I know plenty of nice FSO families here, but I think they all turn into the worst versions of themselves and our country when posted abroad.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 16:41
Subject: Re:Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
I am an expat and I agree that most high class diplomat brats do not immerse themselves in the culture. They attend private international schools and rarely venture outside their circle. The expat kids who attend local and live in middle or lower middle class neighborhoods have a totally different experience. The rich segregate themselves from ordinary folks everywhere, with rich expats having the smallest cliqueAnonymous wrote:Agree FS kids are messed up.
I knew several in high school here and several in college. They all had a huge sense of
entitlement and treated classmates who were born and bred in the states like they were dumb hicks. Also, they acted like they were immersed in local culture when most of their time overseas was spent with other expat families (or locals from the upper classes). They were out of touch with every one and everything.
And I agree that born and bread locals are dumb hicks, but have learned to accept it. Sometimes I just really miss having a deep conversation with someone about something other than the last mayor or baseball game or clothing and fashion or weather or how to do nails or the latest soap
Anonymous
01/29/2014 16:39
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
OP. What was the point of you post to begin with? And you left out education allowances - $20 - $50K per year per kid. Is this excessive too? What are we supposed to do? Pay out of pocket for private?
Anonymous
01/29/2014 16:30
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
I am a FS kid (now 40 and lived to tell about it).
OP, you mostly note the monetary benefits, which of course there are many, especially in developing countries, and the coolness factor.
It's difficult to put a price on certain things it definitely impacts, like family harmony, a balanced marriage, dual earner difficulties, the stress of moving every 2-3 years and being homeless, and then the moving back which is the hardest.
Most of the foreign service families I know are divorced, or the wife has to totally buy into moving every few years and having a very limited career if one at all. So many of the FS people I knew (and it's mostly guys) were men who married foreign nationals from developing countries, because they generally have no problem following someone around and with the power balance being the way it is.
The hardest move I ever had was moving back to a local high school in 10th grade. I count myself lucky that I didn't go to bording school but it was a possibility with one of the posts my dad considered.
Ask yourself--is this what I want to do to my family over the span of 20-25 years? Is everyone really on board? Do you have a strong enough family unit that you can keep it together while you're overseas? (Are you rocky now for example, multiply that times 10.)
I considered doing the FS, but from what I'd seen it wasn't worth the impact to what is now my growing family. Some people haven't experienced it, or are comfortable with the imbalance, or are single and loving it, so it works.
OP, you mostly note the monetary benefits, which of course there are many, especially in developing countries, and the coolness factor.
It's difficult to put a price on certain things it definitely impacts, like family harmony, a balanced marriage, dual earner difficulties, the stress of moving every 2-3 years and being homeless, and then the moving back which is the hardest.
Most of the foreign service families I know are divorced, or the wife has to totally buy into moving every few years and having a very limited career if one at all. So many of the FS people I knew (and it's mostly guys) were men who married foreign nationals from developing countries, because they generally have no problem following someone around and with the power balance being the way it is.
The hardest move I ever had was moving back to a local high school in 10th grade. I count myself lucky that I didn't go to bording school but it was a possibility with one of the posts my dad considered.
Ask yourself--is this what I want to do to my family over the span of 20-25 years? Is everyone really on board? Do you have a strong enough family unit that you can keep it together while you're overseas? (Are you rocky now for example, multiply that times 10.)
I considered doing the FS, but from what I'd seen it wasn't worth the impact to what is now my growing family. Some people haven't experienced it, or are comfortable with the imbalance, or are single and loving it, so it works.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 15:04
Subject: Re:Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
Agree FS kids are messed up.
I knew several in high school here and several in college. They all had a huge sense of
entitlement and treated classmates who were born and bred in the states like they were dumb hicks. Also, they acted like they were immersed in local culture when most of their time overseas was spent with other expat families (or locals from the upper classes). They were out of touch with every one and everything.
I knew several in high school here and several in college. They all had a huge sense of
entitlement and treated classmates who were born and bred in the states like they were dumb hicks. Also, they acted like they were immersed in local culture when most of their time overseas was spent with other expat families (or locals from the upper classes). They were out of touch with every one and everything.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 15:00
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
My list was about financial benefits. So I didn't write about the job or the opportunities to experience new things.
I lost some things in a shipment once. The shipping company gave us a few hundred bucks. Same thing happens when airlines lose my bags. I've twice sold my car for my purchase price after driving it around for 2-4 years. I could have profited but that is against the rules.
The benefits vary greatly depending on the country you live in.
This career works best if you join when you are young. If you join late, your benefits will be more limited.
I lost some things in a shipment once. The shipping company gave us a few hundred bucks. Same thing happens when airlines lose my bags. I've twice sold my car for my purchase price after driving it around for 2-4 years. I could have profited but that is against the rules.
The benefits vary greatly depending on the country you live in.
This career works best if you join when you are young. If you join late, your benefits will be more limited.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 14:16
Subject: Re:Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
Wow. I am a current FSO and am still making about $30K/year less than I was before I came into the service seven years ago. The housing and education benefits are generous, but my wife makes less than half of her previous salary and I think you vastly overestimated the value of many of the other benefits.
For example, I've never made money on selling a car overseas, and lost a ton of money, time and sentimental items (despite the insurance which I paid for myself) when one of our crates was lost in our last move. Differentials are shrinking in most of the world and we don't all get a ticket back to the US every year. And I believe that Home Leave is about ten days for each year abroad, and you can only take it if you can negotiate the time off in the US between overseas jobs. Hell, many of us resent home leave because it's logistically and financially so complicated. Did I mention that I've been shot at twice in the last year, and my wife was robbed at gunpoint when we first arrived at our current post?
For us, the most important benefits didn't make it on to your list. My kids can order street food in three languages, and have seen elephants, swam with whale sharks and met presidents. We are closer as a family than we were in the US because it's really clear that we're in it together - for good and for tough times too. There are things the kids miss out on in the US, but I think they've built some real life skills that their friends back home have never had to develop. I have had a series of job that are challenging and usually meaningful, I've had a front row seat to some truly historic moments, I'm rarely bored, and I like my colleagues and the mission we share. And did you mention the receptions?
I love what I do and am grateful for my job - but I think your list is no where close to representative of my reality as a FSO.
For example, I've never made money on selling a car overseas, and lost a ton of money, time and sentimental items (despite the insurance which I paid for myself) when one of our crates was lost in our last move. Differentials are shrinking in most of the world and we don't all get a ticket back to the US every year. And I believe that Home Leave is about ten days for each year abroad, and you can only take it if you can negotiate the time off in the US between overseas jobs. Hell, many of us resent home leave because it's logistically and financially so complicated. Did I mention that I've been shot at twice in the last year, and my wife was robbed at gunpoint when we first arrived at our current post?
For us, the most important benefits didn't make it on to your list. My kids can order street food in three languages, and have seen elephants, swam with whale sharks and met presidents. We are closer as a family than we were in the US because it's really clear that we're in it together - for good and for tough times too. There are things the kids miss out on in the US, but I think they've built some real life skills that their friends back home have never had to develop. I have had a series of job that are challenging and usually meaningful, I've had a front row seat to some truly historic moments, I'm rarely bored, and I like my colleagues and the mission we share. And did you mention the receptions?
I love what I do and am grateful for my job - but I think your list is no where close to representative of my reality as a FSO.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 13:47
Subject: Re:Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
Anonymous wrote:My BIL and SIL and family are foreign service and they have definitely reaped the economic benefits of foreign service life. For example, they paid off their house here in 15 years and built a huge addition on the same house which basically doubled it in size. They had cheap childcare and help for most of their children's young lives which allowed them to do a lot of things they would not have been able to do here. But, I do think their personal lives have taken a turn for the worse. My SIL cannot seem to leave the party life she experienced overseas and she and all her foreign service friends are always lamenting how busy/expensive it is here, and how much better life was in their last posting (they've now been back here for 3+ years). Alcohol was a huge part of their lives over there, and still seems to be now that they are back here. My BIL seems detached from the family and no one seems to like each other very much when they are together. The kids are doing OK in school overall, but often seem morose and unhappy. Of course, I am sure this is not true of every foreign service family, but it seems like they and all their friends who are now back here are having a difficult time adjusting and seem to think life was so much better overseas.
very typical
Anonymous
01/29/2014 13:16
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
The commissary benefit is not a big deal to me. Maybe if I drank lots of alcohol it would amount to something.
A big one is use of the pouch or APO mail service. You can buy things from Amazon at US prices when locals around you are paying double or triple for the same item.
A big one is use of the pouch or APO mail service. You can buy things from Amazon at US prices when locals around you are paying double or triple for the same item.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 12:52
Subject: Re:Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
My BIL and SIL and family are foreign service and they have definitely reaped the economic benefits of foreign service life. For example, they paid off their house here in 15 years and built a huge addition on the same house which basically doubled it in size. They had cheap childcare and help for most of their children's young lives which allowed them to do a lot of things they would not have been able to do here. But, I do think their personal lives have taken a turn for the worse. My SIL cannot seem to leave the party life she experienced overseas and she and all her foreign service friends are always lamenting how busy/expensive it is here, and how much better life was in their last posting (they've now been back here for 3+ years). Alcohol was a huge part of their lives over there, and still seems to be now that they are back here. My BIL seems detached from the family and no one seems to like each other very much when they are together. The kids are doing OK in school overall, but often seem morose and unhappy. Of course, I am sure this is not true of every foreign service family, but it seems like they and all their friends who are now back here are having a difficult time adjusting and seem to think life was so much better overseas.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 12:33
Subject: Are foreign service benefits excessive or reasonable given the sacrifices?
Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings.
1. I don't find the ability to hire a maid or chef a benefit provided by the foreign service. It's something that's affordable based on the city you live in. I might be able to afford a maid if I lived in Tuscaloosa, AL but couldn't afford one in Greenwich, CT for example.
2. I do think the commissary benefits in terms of prices and (I think) tax-free are excessive and unnecessary.
3. Salary adjustments for hardship and danger pay are absolutely appropriate.
4. Per diem is probably comparable to most companies in the U.S.
5. Housing allowance is probably a bit high. I'd cap it based on the amount that you are getting for renting your house back in the States.
6. Personally, I think the day of pensions is past and would phase them out for FS, civilian and military. Move towards a 401K system, but guaranteed pensions for life is a huge budget problem and not in line with today's economics.
I don't understand why you need a housing allowance if you are being paid a salary. I could see maybe supplementing housing if you lived in an expensive area like japan but other than that you are basically pocketing the money. If I didn't have housing costs I would be pretty rich even on 100k a year.