Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

Jesus is speaking to people who have heard it or read it. That's who it applies to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

Except that Jesus was speaking to a very specific group of people when he said something probably similar (remember, the Bible was written by people not God. And translated by people not God) to that. Do you really believe a loving God would condemn people to hell for any reason, let alone for never having heard the name Jesus?

It's o.k. to actually think.

People who have never been exposed to God's gift are not held accountable. People who have are.

That's not biblical. You cannot list a Bible verse and insist that it is God's Word, yet turn around and add your own little caveat. The Bible is allegory - it is meant to be interpreted metaphysically equipped with the understanding of the time and place in which each book was written. The stories are important. There are hundreds of valuable lessons contained in every book. But it was never meant to be read as science or history.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

Except that Jesus was speaking to a very specific group of people when he said something probably similar (remember, the Bible was written by people not God. And translated by people not God) to that. Do you really believe a loving God would condemn people to hell for any reason, let alone for never having heard the name Jesus?

It's o.k. to actually think.

People who have never been exposed to God's gift are not held accountable. People who have are.

Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

Verily, Verily I say unto you, my dear preschool teachers. Unless you complete at least three of the four training opportunities scheduled in the next year, you cannot maintain your position as lead teacher.
(I am a program director. At our meeting last week I reminded my lead teachers that they had to complete their training hours before the end of the year.)

That statement cannot be interpreted to apply to all preschool teachers in every corner of the world for as long as the earth continues spinning. I was speaking directly to a specific group of people in a specific situation and at a specific time in history. In other words, Jesus wasn't talking to the folks living in a remote rainforest or sitting in a Buddhist temple. He was explaining that in order to get closer to God, people should follow his example. Love one another and love God. Be kind to each other. Take care of the poor. Feed the hungry. Be honest in your words. Fulfill your promises.

Not - "Believe in me or I will throw you in a pit of fire for eternity". Do you not see how that totally negates the concept of free will?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

Except that Jesus was speaking to a very specific group of people when he said something probably similar (remember, the Bible was written by people not God. And translated by people not God) to that. Do you really believe a loving God would condemn people to hell for any reason, let alone for never having heard the name Jesus?

It's o.k. to actually think.

People condemn themselves to hell.

Anonymous wrote:OP, please, go talk to other Christians outside your immediate circle. Or read some books...try some CS Lewis. You don't need to feel sick about this, or like you are weird or are betraying anything. Reach out.

Become Catholic...Crap the Kennedys are Catholic! nobody gets Shunned and it's Christian! Throw them all into a tizzy by worrying that they won't be saved since they do the Eucharist incorrectly.

OP, please, go talk to other Christians outside your immediate circle. Or read some books...try some CS Lewis. You don't need to feel sick about this, or like you are weird or are betraying anything. Reach out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

OP here. This is what I think is the cornerstone of being a Christian. If I don't believe that Jesus is God's son and died on the cross, was buried, and resurrected, I cannot call myself a Christian. And if that is what happens, my whole world will be changed- immediate and extended family, friends, job. I think I'll have to keep my mouth shut and act like nothing has changed. Either option makes me feel sick.

I would suggest keeping it to yourself. If it's all true (and I think it is ) Jesus doesn't care what others think anyway he only cares about you. Drifting away is how many people experience the nastyness of the world and find their way home in a humbled state. It's actually more real that way. Be inherently optimistic .. It's a good habit. It's never too late to commit yourself to Christ...(even on your deathbed)

Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

Except that Jesus was speaking to a very specific group of people when he said something probably similar (remember, the Bible was written by people not God. And translated by people not God) to that. Do you really believe a loving God would condemn people to hell for any reason, let alone for never having heard the name Jesus?

It's o.k. to actually think.

Anonymous wrote:Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

OP here. This is what I think is the cornerstone of being a Christian. If I don't believe that Jesus is God's son and died on the cross, was buried, and resurrected, I cannot call myself a Christian. And if that is what happens, my whole world will be changed- immediate and extended family, friends, job. I think I'll have to keep my mouth shut and act like nothing has changed. Either option makes me feel sick.

Jesus said "no man gets to the father except through me." There is no middle ground. Jesus is either God or he is insane . He doesn't give you wiggle room and you are either a Christian or not.

The rich young man came to Christ and asked "what do I need to be good and inherit the kingdom of God?" Jesus said " only God is good. You must obey the Ten Commandments ." The man said "I've done that since I was a child ."

He broke a commandment right there. Thall shalt not lie.

I was into the Evangelical movement until the moment I woke up and opened my eyes. It is a very cultish movement. No, I am not a non-believer in the God and they body of Christ. I just don't believe in religion and the grand churches and multi-million dollar ministers.

OP, lots of really good Christians believe different things about God and Christ and salvation. If you can get your head around there maybe being a different way to look at God and Jesus than the one you were raised with that is equally valid, you don't need to walk away from Christianity. Try another church. Just go and listen and see how you feel. Ask the minister questions, if you are up for it. And you have no need to ask permission or blessing of your family - this is your journey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are born bad. We are not good and don't let your feelings cloud the fact that we are all "me first". Could you imagine a child raised with absolutely no parent contact to teach right and wrong? Most of right and wrong we believe is based on having a civil society and making us comfortable not being moral . It's like loving your children... We love them because we get a reward too... We don't love others children.
Once you understand that we all are bad you can understand why Christ was sacrificed . We are in a dire situation but God has given us a free gift. We just have to admit we are bad and accept the gift ... We don't have to do anything else. Most people don't think they need the gift because they think they are "good people ", lol ... Like " I'm good .. I recycle ". Once you come to grips with the fact that you and everybody else is bad it all comes together. Btw .. If your church is pushing you away just find a small group to read the bible and discuss deep matters made up of people you can trust. Even just one other is fine and quit that other church.

People are not "born bad". We are good. Every single person on this planet has good in them. In some people it is really hard to see, but it's there. Why on earth would a God who is by definition, the ultimate "good", create bad people? He didn't. He can't. He is good. When we say "love" "good" "peace".... We are simply using other words for what some people call God. God cannot create "bad" because God is light and love.

God allowed the world to form and put humans on it to learn. We grow towards "good" (enlightenment, heaven,....) as we are challenged. That's why we are here - to learn to love so that someday we can be joined with that all-powerful, all -loving good.

I don't know much - but I know that humans are not born "bad". And I know that a universal loving force for good governs our reality. All humans are part of "God" and therefore inherently good.

.


So since we are naturally good , why did God think it was necessary to have his only begotten son ripped to shreds and sacrificed?

The evangelical view of Christ's death is very different than most. Christ died as a demonstration of perfect love. He didn't die to literally save you from sin. How does that even make sense? Christ's death demonstrated perfect, sacrificial love. God showed his love for humanity in a way that we could understand. He sent Jesus as a living, breathing example of His perfect love. We see God (light, love) through the way Jesus lived while on earth and in the way he died. Jesus is an example of what we as humans are supposed to strive for - perfect love, compassion, justice, humility, generosity, ....and in the end, a willingness to give up one's life for another.

I freely admit that I could be wrong. Like all of us, I am on a journey. However, I am absolutely 100% positive that the evangelical Christians are dead wrong. God is all good. All light. All love. He did not create people "bad". We have free will, but we are inherently good. Every single person on this planet is inherently good and equally worthy. When people finally figure that out, our world will be a much different place.