Anonymous wrote:It should bother you that the public school system REQUIRES your child to "volunteer" - actually to provide free work for approved organizations. That is chilling and it should bother any parent.

In addition to the disturbing, big-brother aspect of the system compelling the service, it should bother you that NONE of this actually teaches the value of volunteerism! Volunteering is about choosing to use one's time in a helpful/selfless way for the betterment of others. This is about fulfilling a requirement, not volunteering.

Volunteering is providing work/labor free of charge. That's what it is. So when I work in my child's classroom, that is "volunteering." It does not, however, benefit anyone "financially" - unless you consider that it saves the school from having to hire an aide to do these things. Which it cannot do anyway as it does not have the budget.

Anonymous wrote:There is something very dangerous/frightening about so many parents accepting this and defending this practice. Talk about a slippery slope to state control!

What happens when, for example, the list one day only includes groups with a particular religious or political affiliation. Sometimes you need to look at the principal at stake. I can't be the only liberal on this board, can I?

Actually, religious- and politically-based work cannot be credited for SSL hours.

I am a left-leaning liberal and support this program. I do see your point about forced volunteerism (ideally volunteerism should come from the heart and be taught by parents), but calling it "unpaid labor" which benefits someone (who?) financially is inaccurate and a bit strange.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know. How is it legal to require your kid to take math? Gym? English?

Same thing. It's service learning for a reason.

Not the same thing. These "approved" organizations are getting a tangible, measurable financial benefit from the students: the unpaid labor. The students are forced to provide if they want to graduate. Furthermore, these SSL hours happen outside of school hours. Some students need that time to work, help their families, etc. Very different from requiring math, english (during school hours) which are for the benefit of the child and are an essential function of school.

Learning about service might be a laudable goal, but forced volunteerism seems a bridge too far (at least). Parents can teach service and volunteerism but the school shouldn't force it.


After all, how would any of us feel if our employer forced us to do volunteer work at his/her approved list of charities in order to qualify for a promotion. It wouldn't be accepted in the workplace, why should it be accepted in our schools?

In most places where my kids have served, with the exception of e.g. A Wider Circle (run by paid employees), ALL labor is unpaid and ALL of the workers are volunteers. There is no financial benefit derived by A Wider Circle from my kids e.g. sorting household goods or helping clients find things they need. There is a big social benefit, however.

My 13yo recently worked serving meals and giving socks and toiletries to the homeless on a cold Sunday afternoon. Among other things, he commented that he was very surprised at how smart many of the people he served were. He wondered how they could become homeless. This gave rise to a great conversation about the economy, healthcare system, mental health, and other topics.

I don't understand your post at all. Who in your view benefitted financially from him dishing up soup that afternoon?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not the same thing. These "approved" organizations are getting a tangible, measurable financial benefit from the students: the unpaid labor. The students are forced to provide if they want to graduate. Furthermore, these SSL hours happen outside of school hours. Some students need that time to work, help their families, etc. Very different from requiring math, english (during school hours) which are for the benefit of the child and are an essential function of school.

I actually agree with you OP. I volunteer now as an adult, and did volunteer work on and off when I was younger. I obviously see the value in it. But, don't like the idea of these SSL hours.

And, I agree that some students need the time for other things. We're in a 'lower' income school district, and lots of kids do NEED to work.

Are they really allowed to work in middle school? I thought there were child labor laws about that.

Sure there are child labor laws but they apply to machinery, working to midnight, and other age appropriate areas.

Anonymous wrote:is babysitting, not considered something that could be counted towards service?

If you did it for free it might be.

Anonymous wrote:It should bother you that the public school system REQUIRES your child to "volunteer" - actually to provide free work for approved organizations. That is chilling and it should bother any parent.

In addition to the disturbing, big-brother aspect of the system compelling the service, it should bother you that NONE of this actually teaches the value of volunteerism! Volunteering is about choosing to use one's time in a helpful/selfless way for the betterment of others. This is about fulfilling a requirement, not volunteering.

It bothers me that there are people who value work only for money made. Do you get paid for every toilet you clean at home? Do you ask for a quarter if you hold open a door for an elderly person at the bank?

That's the biggest drawback of a capitalistic society, IMO. It ingrains the attitude that we shouldn't do anything for others unless we get paid for it.

There are several studies out there that show the high school requirement of doing service actually helps kids become more empathetic. They get a more realistic view of community needs and begin to understand more where they fit in to that community. What they benefit from, and what they can provide as a benefit.

Anonymous wrote:It should bother you that the public school system REQUIRES your child to "volunteer" - actually to provide free work for approved organizations. That is chilling and it should bother any parent.

In addition to the disturbing, big-brother aspect of the system compelling the service, it should bother you that NONE of this actually teaches the value of volunteerism! Volunteering is about choosing to use one's time in a helpful/selfless way for the betterment of others. This is about fulfilling a requirement, not volunteering.

My mother had me volunteer in high school for college applications. It gave me positive work experience and allowed me to get to know career fields I was interested in doing. If anything, I find it disturbing parents do not encourage their kids to volunteer more.

OP.
You are free to sue MCPS about making SSL hours mandatory.

Keep us informed. In the meantime, my kid will graduate with 600 hours of SSL.

Hitting 75 hours before March of a middle school year makes you eligible for an award from the superintendent.

It should bother you that the public school system REQUIRES your child to "volunteer" - actually to provide free work for approved organizations. That is chilling and it should bother any parent.

In addition to the disturbing, big-brother aspect of the system compelling the service, it should bother you that NONE of this actually teaches the value of volunteerism! Volunteering is about choosing to use one's time in a helpful/selfless way for the betterment of others. This is about fulfilling a requirement, not volunteering.

SSL hours aren't called community service hours any more for a reason. It's because they're about getting kids out in the community, and having them develop skills like looking for an opportunity, following through on a commitment, working as part of a team. They require kids to work for approved community service organizations as a way to make sure that kids are going to safe places, and because of laws that make it complicated for people to work for for profit organizations without pay.

MCPS makes getting SSL hours ridiculously easy. You can start the summer after 5th grade, and there are so many options. My kid got enough hours to fulfill the requirement for helping with some project involving acorns on the sixth grade camping trip, building sets for the middle school play, and making the morning announcements, things that didn't require any special transportation besides riding the late bus home. He's also found lots of opportunities within easy walking distance to our home -- helping set up chairs and pass out lunches at a teacher inservice day, working at an elementary school carnival (perfect for the babysitting kid because you can bring them along), working at the polls on election day, manning the moonbounce at home coming at the high school. Once he even got SSL hours for "documenting the personal history of an elderly resident" which is another way of saying he "talked to his own grandma and then told his class about it".

Finally, the argument that adults don't have to do this is unfair. Many jobs expect that their employees support the organization's charitable priorities. Companies give release time for people to go read to elementary schoolers at lunch, even though those same people are exempt and will likely end up staying late to make up the work. Bosses expect employees to help out with their pet charities, and definitely reward the people who do. Many graduate level education programs also require internships that are often unpaid. If you're studying speech and language at UMD you'll be required to work, for free, in their LEAP preschool. Want to be a physician's assistant? First you're expected to get medical experience, something that is often done via joining a local ambulance squad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not the same thing. These "approved" organizations are getting a tangible, measurable financial benefit from the students: the unpaid labor. The students are forced to provide if they want to graduate. Furthermore, these SSL hours happen outside of school hours. Some students need that time to work, help their families, etc. Very different from requiring math, english (during school hours) which are for the benefit of the child and are an essential function of school.

I actually agree with you OP. I volunteer now as an adult, and did volunteer work on and off when I was younger. I obviously see the value in it. But, don't like the idea of these SSL hours.

And, I agree that some students need the time for other things. We're in a 'lower' income school district, and lots of kids do NEED to work.

Are they really allowed to work in middle school? I thought there were child labor laws about that.

Anonymous wrote:
Not the same thing. These "approved" organizations are getting a tangible, measurable financial benefit from the students: the unpaid labor. The students are forced to provide if they want to graduate. Furthermore, these SSL hours happen outside of school hours. Some students need that time to work, help their families, etc. Very different from requiring math, english (during school hours) which are for the benefit of the child and are an essential function of school.

I actually agree with you OP. I volunteer now as an adult, and did volunteer work on and off when I was younger. I obviously see the value in it. But, don't like the idea of these SSL hours.

And, I agree that some students need the time for other things. We're in a 'lower' income school district, and lots of kids do NEED to work.

Anonymous wrote:There is something very dangerous/frightening about so many parents accepting this and defending this practice. Talk about a slippery slope to state control!

What happens when, for example, the list one day only includes groups with a particular religious or political affiliation. Sometimes you need to look at the principal at stake. I can't be the only liberal on this board, can I?

Then it will be clearly unconstitutional, and we will call the ACLU.

In the meantime, however, it doesn't.

OP are you the one who thinks her kid is being hazed because he can't do middle school sports? If so he should have plenty of time to finish his ssl hours now.

In our experience most ssl hours aren't providing lots of free menial labor. And the couple of things my DC did that might be considered that were the things he liked the best. Overall the things he did were very good experiences and they also come in handy on college applications.

My friend's kid is a member of school orchestra and earned SSL hours by participating in a couple of certain concerts.