Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 11:30     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Good for the OP for trying to get their spending under control. Can't understand why folks go into such enormous debt for student loans. Unless you get a big scholarship or have parents equipped to foot the bill, you should focus on state schools and get a PT job to cover some living expenses. Ditto for grad school. Another option is to go the military route for med school, etc. There's no way to climb out of $300k in student loan debt unless you are making BIG bucks. I hope parents reading DCUM understand this and will pass this info along to their children.

Signed,

State Univ and Law school grad who earns just as much as my colleagues drowning in student loan debt (whose kids will go to state univ unless they get a big scholarship, win the lottery, or start knocking over liquor stores to supplement their income
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 11:24     Subject: Re:When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Look, no one wants to be "the poor relative" Don't force yourself.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 11:21     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I suppose I have a dissenting opinion. Clearly, seeing your family is important for your in-laws. It seems to be important for your husband as well. It is a pretty reasonable position. Kids grow and change tremendously in a year. In this particular case, I think FAMILY TRUMPS MONEY.

Now, you can be financially responsible about visiting. If you feel so uncomfortable about accepting help, or embarrassed to air your financial circumstances, then the onus is on you to find a way to make visiting happen WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT. Cut cable, stop eating out/ordering in, only shop at thrift stores, sell a car, etc.

YOU were the one who made the poor financial decisions earlier. Don't punish your in-laws for your mistakes. Find a way to save that money. Your choices are not just to accept a handout or go into debt. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sounds like you just don't want to find a way.


Oh, PP, if only it was that easy. We haven't had cable since 2010, we don't eat out, and although I don't have time to shop at thrift stores, we buy our kids' clothes very cheaply. We have a lot of student loan debt (over $300k) and that is why we are so poor. It's not something that can be undone or helped by trimming around the edges. And actually, my in-laws encouraged DH and cosigned all his loans. So, from that perspective, they aren't completely blameless.


are they the same people who got into debts for years to pay for the daughter's wedding? if so, you married into a family of financially irresponsible people (and your DH was an adult presumably when he took all those loans, even if his parents encouraged him, he is still fully responsible). sounds like a bunch of people who overspend because they need to keep up with the other Joneses in the family. I think you should simply break the spell and calmly tell the truth. we have 300K in student loan to pay in addition to raise kids and plan for their education. we cannot afford the annual trip. we love you all very much, we will Skype in every night, will make the effort to come maybe every three or four years, depending on the situation. I hope you will visit us as much as you can. when they ask again, you again say no because you cannot afford it. say it clear and loud, as many times you have to. there is no shame in it. there is shame in compromising even further your kids future by charging that CC for a trip you cannot afford.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 10:33     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:I suppose I have a dissenting opinion. Clearly, seeing your family is important for your in-laws. It seems to be important for your husband as well. It is a pretty reasonable position. Kids grow and change tremendously in a year. In this particular case, I think FAMILY TRUMPS MONEY.

Now, you can be financially responsible about visiting. If you feel so uncomfortable about accepting help, or embarrassed to air your financial circumstances, then the onus is on you to find a way to make visiting happen WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT. Cut cable, stop eating out/ordering in, only shop at thrift stores, sell a car, etc.

YOU were the one who made the poor financial decisions earlier. Don't punish your in-laws for your mistakes. Find a way to save that money. Your choices are not just to accept a handout or go into debt. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sounds like you just don't want to find a way.


Oh, PP, if only it was that easy. We haven't had cable since 2010, we don't eat out, and although I don't have time to shop at thrift stores, we buy our kids' clothes very cheaply. We have a lot of student loan debt (over $300k) and that is why we are so poor. It's not something that can be undone or helped by trimming around the edges. And actually, my in-laws encouraged DH and cosigned all his loans. So, from that perspective, they aren't completely blameless.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2014 08:08     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:Can't you just say you are coming and then claim a major issue at work is preventing you? That's what I'd do. You "sve face", and the excuse is at least reasonable (even if untrue).


You, I hate. Talk about being a selfish liar.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 23:43     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:OP, if it is only the cost that bothers you, I would graciously accept the aid and go. Its possible you are projecting due to your own financial stress. To many people $2-3k is not a big deal. It is easy to imagine that your ILs would more than happily pay your way for the pleasure of your company.

Personally, I would find your MIL's inability to accept "no" to be aggravating, intrusive, and what have you. You should be allowed to opt out! Especially since you are not doing it for frivolous reasons.


There is that point, and it's a good one.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 23:34     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
OP, if it is only the cost that bothers you, I would graciously accept the aid and go. Its possible you are projecting due to your own financial stress. To many people $2-3k is not a big deal. It is easy to imagine that your ILs would more than happily pay your way for the pleasure of your company.

Personally, I would find your MIL's inability to accept "no" to be aggravating, intrusive, and what have you. You should be allowed to opt out! Especially since you are not doing it for frivolous reasons.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 23:08     Subject: Re:When no one else will admit they can't afford something
The dynamics raised in the two threads say that you don't mind taking charity from YOUR side of the family, but you feel bad accepting or even admitting that you need charity from HIS side of the family. That is a problem that only you can resolve. You have to find a way to come to terms equitably. And you need to treat both sides the same. What I think is more realistic is that you and your husband need to be on the same page and communicate that message to his family.

My recommendation is to suggest that you admit that you cannot afford air travel, but if the family is willing to come someplace within driving distance of DC (and the nice thing is that there are many, cost-effective places within driving distance of DC to vacation as a group) that your family can participate, otherwise, you cannot. With everything from NYC to the Research Triangle and out to Pittsburgh or even a little further within easy driving distance, that's a lot of good options for a family vacation.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 23:07     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
I wouldn't go. If DH felt so strongly that he needed to go, then I would say he could get a second job at night or on the weekend to pick up the cost of his ticket and he could go.

You don't go into debt except for anything that's a medical emergency for your immediate family.

I grew up with one set of "close" grandparents and one set of "far away" grandparents. We saw the far away grandparents once a year when they came to visit FOUR of the FIVE families their children made. I think by the time I left for college we'd gone to Florida twice to visit them, because that's all we could afford.

My parents NEVER would have gone into debt to visit family and neither would we.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 22:49     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Your husband can (and should ) go visit his family - without you. (1/4 the expense) Occasionally he can bring along one of the children if money allows. If it would cost less, shorten the trip - 2 nits would be fine. Grandparents can travel to see you if that's not enough.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 20:51     Subject: Re:When no one else will admit they can't afford something
I would never go into debt for a vacation.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 19:47     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
If you can't afford it, then you can't afford it. Period. But can you giv us an example of the kind of trip it is? A resort? If so, could you scale it back and rent a cabin or beach house instead? Probably much cheaper. Could you alternate destinations so that one family hosts (at their home) or can at least drive instead of fly? Could you suggest that you all pass this year and instead start planning ahead for a trip in two years?

As a suggestion: you could probably find a large home to rent in a less popular area (ie: on the Chesapeake bay instead of Bethany or the outer banks) and save a ton of money.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 19:45     Subject: Re:When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No, you should never borrow for a vacation but that was not the issue you raised in the last thread. Perhaps I read it wrong, but I thought your ILs want to pay for your trip-or at least they have in the past- so the whole family can get together. If you have the vacation time and this is a priority for your ILs I'm not sure why you are stressing about it so much. It also sounds like you accept financial assistance from your family without an issue. It sounds like something else is going on here.


OP here. What connects the two threads is that we (read: I -- DH would probably just charge the credit card if I wasn't the one to put the kibosh on it) are the only family who will admit to not being able to afford the trip. If anyone else couldn't, they would never say so and just quietly go into debt ... so we look tacky and cheap by admitting our situation and trying to do the right thing for the good of our family. This is one of a few aspects of this situation that I find frustrating.

If they would just take "we can't come this year" for an answer I would be so much less stressed. We tried promising to come every other year (so we could save up) and that wasn't good enough for them. DH has suggested waiting until the last minute to tell them we can't come next year so they won't have time to force it, but I doubt that will work because my MIL will be hounding us about it six months in advance.

Money is the biggest source of stress in my life, no doubt. I am embarrassed about our situation and feel a lot of regret about decisions I made years ago that are having repercussions now. This trip causes stress because it is the only major instance where we are asked (demanded) by others to spend money we don't have. There are other things like fundraisers where we may be asked for smaller amounts, but we can elect not to participate without being called out. We can forgo family vacations, decline birthday invitations, sell belongings or pull a child out of preschool if need be and that is all our business. The expectation that we will spend $2-3k per year on this trip forces us into a Hobson's choice of poor mouthing to the whole family or going into (more) debt.


They sound kind of unreasonable to me. I think you and your husband just have to say "No. I'm sorry, we won't be there this year but we'll try and make it next year." And then stand firm and don't back down "No, I'm sorry we can't this year." Think your dh can do it?
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 19:44     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:I suppose I have a dissenting opinion. Clearly, seeing your family is important for your in-laws. It seems to be important for your husband as well. It is a pretty reasonable position. Kids grow and change tremendously in a year. In this particular case, I think FAMILY TRUMPS MONEY.

Now, you can be financially responsible about visiting. If you feel so uncomfortable about accepting help, or embarrassed to air your financial circumstances, then the onus is on you to find a way to make visiting happen WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT. Cut cable, stop eating out/ordering in, only shop at thrift stores, sell a car, etc.

YOU were the one who made the poor financial decisions earlier. Don't punish your in-laws for your mistakes. Find a way to save that money. Your choices are not just to accept a handout or go into debt. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sounds like you just don't want to find a way.


PP here, Op said she offered every other year and was willing to work hard and sacrifice to do that and in-laws won't accept that. if this was a one time grandma's 100th birthday that would mean one thing but 2-3K every year plus digging out of debt/issues is a lot of pressure. As crazy as it sounds generosity can be selfish if you use it to try to control people in some way. If someone isn't comfortable and you continue to push it, I don't think that's right. When people can't afford something for whatever reason I don't think you run roughshod over their pride. My mom doesn't like going out to eat with me paying all the time. I don't insist we go to the restaurant I want to go to because why should we both miss out since she chose a profession that doesn't pay a lot. My mom will pick a place that is affordable with good food and she will pay the tip. I get to eat somewhere with decent food and spend time with my mom. No one feels dependent in the relationship, everyone has their pride intact, and we have a good time.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2014 19:39     Subject: When no one else will admit they can't afford something
Anonymous wrote:I suppose I have a dissenting opinion. Clearly, seeing your family is important for your in-laws. It seems to be important for your husband as well. It is a pretty reasonable position. Kids grow and change tremendously in a year. In this particular case, I think FAMILY TRUMPS MONEY.

Now, you can be financially responsible about visiting. If you feel so uncomfortable about accepting help, or embarrassed to air your financial circumstances, then the onus is on you to find a way to make visiting happen WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT. Cut cable, stop eating out/ordering in, only shop at thrift stores, sell a car, etc.

YOU were the one who made the poor financial decisions earlier. Don't punish your in-laws for your mistakes. Find a way to save that money. Your choices are not just to accept a handout or go into debt. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sounds like you just don't want to find a way.


I can't imagine a parent wanting or expecting their adult child to go into debt or stop spending their own money on themselves in order to attend an annual family reunion. I can certainly understand the desire to get the entire family together, but no way should the OP feel compelled to cut off her cable, sell a car or vital organ etc. to do it.