Hey OP -

I can relate. I'm the poster with the abusive mom, first time grandma thread from last week. We haven't spoken at all since I drew the line and I'm cool with that.

I think we are in a very similar place - another poster mentioned "moving on" from the past, but still there's that nagging voice inside that wonders if you're overreacting, depriving your kids, etc.

To me, I'd echo the posters who said proceed with caution. If your parents are still trying to make it sound like you were the one with the issues, then they probably haven't reflected on anything. Which means it will only be a matter of time before they are who you remember them to be.

I think for me it comes down to a question of benefit - what would your family get from your association with them? Be very honest with yourself here. The bad will come to mind quickly - can you remember any good? Traditions you may want to preserve?

For me, the costs outweighed the benefits. I do not like the person my mother is, and our interactions escalate quickly. And while there are some good things about her I would like my child exposed to, her disregard for others, abusive and impatient nature, and disrespect for me makes me think I'd be doing my child a disservice.

But in the end, it's all your call here. The good thing about being an independent adult is being able to make your own decisions and design your own life.

What actions will bring you happiness? That's the only real question here.

I will echo what a previous poster noted about being the child in a sitaution like this. My mother was completely estranged from her entire family. I never met one person related to her and I think the hard part is that I don't know much about them either - no photos, no details, it's just a void. If we asked questions, we got brushed off and eventually it became very clear we were not supposed to ask any questions. My father doesn't really know much either. Not suprisingly, my mother has her own set of issues that were problematic in her parenting and I am not close to her as an adult as a result of these issues.

Point being- deal with your issues (sounds like you already have and do deal with them), be as honest as you can with your kids, and try to give them some sense of who you are and where you came from as best you can. I am nearly 40 and it still bugs me that my mother's whole family and history is just a black hole of nothingness.

I think this is just a manipulation. Take a step back from the situation and look at it for what it is. You spending your time and money and potentially subjecting you and your children to abusive people who don't appreciate you and who have put no effort in to mend the relationship. At a minimum, it just sounds like no fun. Why bother.

No. You are not. ++

Anonymous wrote:No. You are not. They have not expressed remorse or regret or even the smallest level of understanding of what they did to you. Until they do, it's just going to be a clusterfuck of emotional abuse.

Stay strong and stay gone.

+1 completely.

It would be different if they expressed some sort of remorse or sought forgiveness. But it seems they clearly do not recognize the depth of their harm to you. I would stay away. I wouldn't even give an explanation, because then they are pulling you into drama. I would ignore their requests, wish them well and say nothing of visiting.

OP, they have nothing good to offer you. Keep your peace and protect your own family from them. Your children will be fine without them, and more importantly your children need YOU to be fine. Getting mixed up with your parents again could jeopardize that. Put energy into the siblings you care about, DH's family, and your friends.

OP - I completely understand your lack of wanting to show up for a holiday so they can brag about their successful kids and obtain the kudos that they want from people who know nothing about the what really happened at your house.

I have a little bit of that happening with my family, but it was sexual abuse, not physical.

Don't stress yourself out too much - and definately do not put your time and money into a visit to them. If you do that, you are too invested in it to make it last a weekend or whatever it is.
Make them come to you in the new year, and you can visit a park or something public with the kids. Nothing in your home. Your home is your sanctuary.

I wouldn't do it because they show no remorse. too easy to get caught up in it again and be hurt again.

I wouldn't pay to fly all that way to see family members who didn't seem remorseful for inappropriate/abusive behavior. If they want to meet your kids, let them pay to come see you. If it doesn't work out, at least that way they are the ones who have been put out, not you.

Boy, does your post resonate with me. I totally understand the 'info is power' dynamic, the manipulation and the façade. I know people in my hometown can't believe how ungrateful my siblings and I are to my mother! Why, she's a pillar of society, a do-gooder whose kids just don't appreciate her. They have no idea what she and my father did to us. We, too, grew up on a farm and the neighbors could never hear what was going on at our house.


You ask, 'Where is the line between forgiveness and giving up your truth?'. I, myself, don't use the term 'forgiveness'. For me, the word is too loaded and means different things to different people. I usually say I've 'moved on' from how I grew up. I don't think you have to draw a line between what you call 'forgiveness' and your truth. You may have moved on fro how you grew up but it is still a part of you and affects your relationships, especially with your parents. I firmly believe that as an adult you get to choose who your family is. My three kids all know how I grew up and why I don't have a relationship with my parents. I consider it part of teaching them that you can accept someone's apology, it doesn't mean you have to be their friend. In your case, your parents haven't even apologized or acknowledged their abuse. What does it matter if they're 'family'? Why would you allow your kids to have relationship with people who behave that way?

OP, I think you would feel more in the power position if you took control of your relationship with them. Only contact should be initiated by you and on your terms. This may mean that you have no contact. You should be clear with other family members that there is to be no discussion of them around your kids and you would hope they wouldn't discuss you around them. At the end of the day their behavior continues to be like this because you and your siblings allow them to continue to abuse/manipulate you. While you can't control your siblings you can control yourself.

OP again -- Thanks for all your comments/advice. I really appreciate it.

Regarding Christmas timing -- I think they start working on their gift list (it's a big deal for GPs - right?) and realize they know nothing about my kids. In recent years, they have sent a check for my kids and I either return it or toss it. It's blood money to me. That's their MO -- use $ to own you. I'm sure they also hear about other townspeople's holiday plans and they want to have something similar to report. So, they have a holiday dinner like normal families do. It's all a sham. That's what sticks in my craw -- It would feel like I was acquiesing to their re-written history and giving them evidence to tout to themselves and others in the town (evidence that they are terrific parents and one big happy family).

If it was just an hour's car ride away, I suppose I could handle a meet/greet and leave. But, the fact that interacting with them (ever) requires plane reservations, car rental, hotel, etc. makes it a significant mental commitment. I suppose there is some little kernel in me that would enjoy claimimg victory over them -- see them in their old age and desperate neediness and know that I am in the power position now -- they do not own me. ("You are small and I am big"). But, I know they will try to take credit for my accomplishments and use it to fortify their charade of history.

Currently, none of the other grandkids are banned from them. The emotional manipulation had something to do with extracting info. about me from my brother's young kids and then using it to make the kids feel bad that GPs weren't included in the activity that involved me and my family. There may be more to it than that, but my SIL was none too happy with GPs and they kept their kids away from GPs for a year or so even though they lived in the same small town. They no longer live in that town/state, so I wouldn't really have any other reason to go to that state/town.

I'm sure that GPs would try to buy my kids anythng and everything if they ever met. My former counselor said that a lot of time people who were bad parents turn out to be decent GPs b/c they don't have all the responsibilities and stresses of raising children. They mellow with age and can focus on being more of a giver rather than a dictator. So, I'm not especially worried about GPs mistreating my kids --GPs would just be their usual weird, socially-dense selves, who try too hard to get my kids to like them, with too many desperate clingy expectations.

This is exhausting!

We already have plans for Christmas time so we won't be going to the holiday dinner. But this issue will continue month after month.

As a mother, I know that I would be heart-broken if I didn't see one of my children for 25 years. I have accepted what has happened and I have "forgiven" in the sense that I'm not filled with anger, hate or hurt. I understand now that it wasn't about me being a bad kid. I understand that they had too many kids/demands that they couldn't handle well.

Where is the line between forgiveness and giving up your truth?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want to connect so much, why don't they make the effort to come your way--to a hotel of course.

They did (on one of those old people bus tours), but I was still afraid of them at that point, didn't want them to know about my life (info. is power to them), it was very difficult for me to get off work at that time b/c of shift work, etc. They would come if I wanted them to - it would be the highlight of their year and they would tell all the people in their small town about it and use it as proof that they are successful parents. I think the fact that I don't come to anything is the one crack in what they have otherwise portrayed as a successful family (which is totally a facade).

As for my siblings -- there are many -- I have neutral/positive relationships with some, and others I haven't seen in 25 yrs. Distance. Different lives. Some have cut their children off from the GPs for awhile as punishment for GPs' manipulative behavior with the grandkids. One sister is manic/depressive and received the brunt of the hostilities/abuse growing up. The oldest brother also received a lot. Neither is married so they go to holiday events b/c they have nothing else. The only other ones with kids are brothers (who on the whole, did not receive a lot of abuse -- they were valued for helping on the farm). Their ability to interact with the parents is a little easier, although they and their wives still have to deal with the emotional manipulation.

OP, your parenthetical - info is power to them - in conjunction with what else you've written about your parents doesn't bode well for your future relationship with your parents. They were abusive of you when you were a child, and they're manipulating you now - another form of abuse. You're not under any obligation to subject yourself to their further abuse - in fact, it sounds like your moral obligation is to avoid them. Don't give them further opportunities to mistreat you.

I'm not in your situation, but your kids' situation. Both of my parents grew up in abusive homes and went through long periods of no contact with their parents. I'm 30 and I've met one grandfather 3x total and one grandmother about 5. The other grandfather died before I was born and while I'm close to my other grandmother, she played favorites and my mom kept strict boundaries in place once my younger siblings were old enough to notice, so I didn't see her often (every 2 years or so)

I do have close relationships with a few uncles, aunts and cousins though. Even more so as an adult than when I was a kid. I know the family history and folklore, I hear stories of my parents' childhood (some good, some bad) and I have a very real sense of "where I come from" despite having almost relationship with my grandparents and most of my parents' siblings.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I tend to be someone who thinks you make effort to maintain family relationships. That said, two things really stand out from your posts.

1. Your parents refuse to acknowledge, let alone apologize for their abuse.

2. Your siblings have had to cut your parents off from their own children due to your parents' emotional manipulation of their grandchildren.

Given those two factors, I don't see any net benefit to trying to reestablish a relationship. Quite the contrary. It sounds like your parents are still capable of hurting children. Continue to protect your children from them. It doesn't sound like they are missing out on anything good.

When they're older, you can fill them in on your family history and why you made the decisions that you did. I am getting some of that history now from my mother, and it's valuable for the insight it provides into her and her life but I didn't need it when I was a kid.

I didn't read all the replies but all including this one sounded exactly right.
Just want to add something small…they want to see you again, which is the issue these insightful PPs are focusing on and I couldn't say it better. But there is this other weirdness. They want to see you for CHRISTMAS? what???????

Just saying, if you were considering seeing them again (and personally I hope you don't, and your kids don't need this experience of their manipulative GPs in their lives) but if you were to go ahead, the emotionally laden time of Christmas is not the time to do it.