At times, I've felt like my wife had some object permanence issues with me and my contributions. Intellectually, she knew that when I was away from the house, I was working and it was that work that allowed her to buy stuff.

But on a deeper, fundamental level, she didn't really seem to *feel* that. What she felt was that she was doing work without me during the day and, so, when I got home, it was time for me to do work that had an observable, direct benefit for her and the family.

And, it probably went both ways; with the exception being that I couldn't stick her with my out of the house work when I came home - she could expect that I'd do some of the in-house work at that time.

When the kids hit school age, she started her own business from home that adds 10-15% to our household income. That's good for everyone.

My SAHW of late-year elementary school kids spends more time on her computer than I do with my full-time job. I can't wait to get away from the flipping screen. She's on hers constantly. A lot of it is e-mailing, causing conflict with church, and online shopping/browsing.

Anonymous wrote:OP, when she goes shopping all day, is she buying things the family needs? I will tell you spending an afternoon at target stocking up on everything we go through is no fun for me. If you want her to start working you'll have even less time on the weekends to hang out with friends because you'll both have to take a turn cleaning and making lists and going shopping and cooking etc.

If she is at all mall buying herself jewelry and handbags every day, that is a problem. Maybe time for financial or couples counseling if she really doesn't understand that she's causing financial harm to the family.

I've known SAHMs who buy non-essentials at Target too. It gets mixed in with stuff like food and toilet paper. "We needed a new rug." Um, no we didn't. Hard to keep track of that nickel and dime stuff that's not lavish but also not strictly necessary either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you involved as a father and husband? You sound disconnected and uninterested in family life. If all you give them is money and not time or respect, then they'll treat you like an ATM. Teens are expensive and need a lot of guidance. It sounds like you don't have much respect for your wife, and you think you're better than her because you work.

I don't get that at all.

In fact, I think we have a new trend here where the kids age out, the SAHMs refuse to go back to work and essentially become freeloaders. Today's fathers get stuck with the proverbial "second shift."

The NYT should write a piece about it.

I'm not so sure "refuse" is the accurate word here. Have you ever tried to get a job in a crappy economy after a decade or more out of the workforce? Let alone a flexible part-time job like OP expects his wife to find so she can still be available to do all of the house and kid stuff?

Has she made any effort? It's not acceptable to just say, "oh, well, i've been out of the workforce for 10 years and the economy sucks, so I'm just going to go shopping again, ok?" Cuz that's what's happening here. BTW, the job market is much improved, especially in this area.

Anonymous wrote:I know you said you set up a budget, but it's possible she might've seen that as an allowance. This has to be done delicately. If the kids are teenagers, they are old enough to understand a household budget. This could be an opportunity for the family.

Have everyone sit together at the table and lay out the finances. Start with the monthly income. Then one-by-one add the mortgage, car payment, bills, etc and see what is left over for food, clothes, expenses, and college savings.

Have everyone, even the kids, weigh in on how much should be spent each week on groceries and extras. Once you have a family agreement, tape that weekly budget to the refrigerator. At the end of the week, gather the family back together and write down what was actually spent. If you have money left over, hooray! Everyone goes to the movies! If they spent more than they should have, ask them what they can live without next week - less food or less savings.

This would be really awesome for your children, as well as your wife. It would also help that she would be accountable to other people besides you.

OP, when she goes shopping all day, is she buying things the family needs? I will tell you spending an afternoon at target stocking up on everything we go through is no fun for me. If you want her to start working you'll have even less time on the weekends to hang out with friends because you'll both have to take a turn cleaning and making lists and going shopping and cooking etc.

If she is at all mall buying herself jewelry and handbags every day, that is a problem. Maybe time for financial or couples counseling if she really doesn't understand that she's causing financial harm to the family.

Anonymous wrote:I know you said you set up a budget, but it's possible she might've seen that as an allowance. This has to be done delicately. If the kids are teenagers, they are old enough to understand a household budget. This could be an opportunity for the family.

Have everyone sit together at the table and lay out the finances. Start with the monthly income. Then one-by-one add the mortgage, car payment, bills, etc and see what is left over for food, clothes, expenses, and college savings.

Have everyone, even the kids, weigh in on how much should be spent each week on groceries and extras. Once you have a family agreement, tape that weekly budget to the refrigerator. At the end of the week, gather the family back together and write down what was actually spent. If you have money left over, hooray! Everyone goes to the movies! If they spent more than they should have, ask them what they can live without next week - less food or less savings.

Involve the kids but not this much!! I would have been totally freaked out as a teenager to learn just how little we had leftover at the end of the month. No way do kids need to know their parents salary and how much the mortgage is. I had an allowance and knew I had to babysit or get a job if I wanted to buy things beyond basic clothes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you involved as a father and husband? You sound disconnected and uninterested in family life. If all you give them is money and not time or respect, then they'll treat you like an ATM. Teens are expensive and need a lot of guidance. It sounds like you don't have much respect for your wife, and you think you're better than her because you work.

I don't get that at all.

In fact, I think we have a new trend here where the kids age out, the SAHMs refuse to go back to work and essentially become freeloaders. Today's fathers get stuck with the proverbial "second shift."

The NYT should write a piece about it.

Some women are lazy. Who knew?

She could go back to work. What does she do all day while the kids are at school? She sounds like she may be depressed.

She can't expect you to make all the money and then do all the housework when you get home if she is home all day in my opinion. Teens should be independent enough that mommy doesn't have to do that much.

Anonymous wrote: Twice a week she cleans the house. The rest of the week she is at the gym, doing shoppingl, etc.

Is there food in the house? Meals on the table? Toilet paper and clean towels in the bathroom? Are kids transported to/from school, activities and doctor's appointments? Who takes care of most small chores and errands, bill paying, gift buying, making sure the kids have school supplies, sports equipment, clothing that fits, etc.? If your wife is doing all or most of these things then there is a lot going on that you don't appreciate and that is just as much of a grind for her as your job is for you. Yes, you should have time for friends and hobbies and just plain downtime. You both should. And, yes, both partners in a marriage need to respect the family budget and not overspend or spend selfishly. But it sounds as if neither of you may be appreciating what the other does for the family.

What is she spending the money on, OP?

SAHM here. Very early in my marriage and motherhood, I was also caught up in the SAHM vs WOHM dilemma. DH made it easy for me. He said that you do what is best for you and what is best for your family. If finances are tight, or you do not feel fulfilled without your job, or you cannot handle being at home and the children 24/7, or you need to have your own money and security, or you feel that being a SAHM will not get you respect, or WOH will make you more of an equal partner - then go and work.

If you want to be with your kids at home, if your financial situation allows you to do that, if you can create a home that takes care of everyone's needs, if your relationship dynamic can handle this - stay at home.

Now my kids are grown (not out of the coop yet) - and I get an opportunity to work from home - telecommuting. I only need to be accessible by phone - which means that I can still be a soccer mom. My entire family feels that this is not worth it because I will be better served devoting that time to my hobbies etc.

So- when I see posts like this I feel like the PP - I wouldn't want to be in OPs family either (in any role).

Ask yourself another question. Could you live happily if today your spouse were to die? Think through all the scenarios before you answer that. Imagine your daily life, and your kids life, without your spouse. This will give you an indication if your married life is good or bad or are you having a grouchy day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you involved as a father and husband? You sound disconnected and uninterested in family life. If all you give them is money and not time or respect, then they'll treat you like an ATM. Teens are expensive and need a lot of guidance. It sounds like you don't have much respect for your wife, and you think you're better than her because you work.

I don't get that at all.

In fact, I think we have a new trend here where the kids age out, the SAHMs refuse to go back to work and essentially become freeloaders. Today's fathers get stuck with the proverbial "second shift."

The NYT should write a piece about it.

I'm not so sure "refuse" is the accurate word here. Have you ever tried to get a job in a crappy economy after a decade or more out of the workforce? Let alone a flexible part-time job like OP expects his wife to find so she can still be available to do all of the house and kid stuff?

I am a SAHM. My kids are almost all in school, so I think about this a lot.

Forget all that "sending her on vacation" crap. She is already on vacation. But don't be dismissive of her contributions to the household and family, either. Start the conversation with, "I appreciate that you do a lot for all of us, but we are clearly struggling financially right now, and earning more money is essential. I am not asking you to pay the mortgage, but earning enough to pay for your activities."

She has been out of the workforce for a very long time. I would be terrified of looking for a job after so many years without any preparation. So maybe some courses in technology? Something to make her more marketable? I would also propose it in terms of "The kids are growing up and will be out of the house before you know it. For your own sake, you should find something productive to occupy some of those hours." But don't make the mistake of saying that the teenagers don't need her at home when they are home. Teenagers need their parents a ton, even though they think they don't - not for their physical needs but to help them navigate very trying emotional times.

If she feels you are disrespecting her, her defenses will be impenetrable. So try the gentlest approach you can. Show her your vulnerabilities,too, and let her come up with a solution.

Did you read the part where the kids are teenagers?

Anonymous wrote:Hello time machine - clearly we've rolled the clock back to 1956.

Marriage counseling.

Trade places for a week. (Obviously she can't do your job but she can go do a temp job for a week while you do everything she does. Everything.) Then talk.

Send her on vacation for 2 weeks while you stay home. Then talk.

Build your household budget together - give her a reasonable percentage of your income to cover all household expenses, day to day small expenditures, food/clothing/activities for her and the kids, etc... Let her decide those numbers (within the confines of the budget that makes sense within your income) and then let her manage the money.

Treat her as an equal partner (you do not sound like you view her that way at all BTW).

Marriage counseling.

Financial counseling.

Time off for her. Time spent doing the work of the family for you. Maybe a job outside the home for her if she wants it - not because you are scornful of her.

Marriage counseling.

I'll be sending supportive thoughts her way and wishing you all good luck. Doesn't sound like a family I'd want to be in (in any role).