And too bad if the ILs are horribly offended. Someone at some point has to tell them, and if DH is the first in the family to have kids, then it falls on him.

Honestly, OP, he could become violent, and despite his diminished responsibility, that wouldn't make things better for you and your children, would it?

DH should have a straight talk with his parents: that his brother is seriously ill and needs drastic medical intervention. That your children cannot be in the same room, and that therefore you are planning to come when the brother is not there. Period. No judging, just statements of facts.

OP here. I am shaking right now. I have been reading about various diagnoses and just finished reading about schizoaffective disorder. THIS is him.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/schizoaffective-disorder/DS00866/DSECTION=symptoms

He demonstrates nearly all of these symptoms. I had never heard of this disorder before. Thank you so much for sharing this information with me--I am eager to show this to DH. My heart is breaking right now thinking of all the years he had been on ADHD drugs--yes, he was on ritalin and other attention drugs for years before rejecting them. I don't know if they were wrong for him but it seems like he needed SO MUCH MORE than this. Poor baby. I am going to cry thinking of how he must have been struggling for more than a decade. I have no idea what to do.

OP here. I think the impulse to see it as a personality issue is a combination of denial and helplessness in understanding. If it is mental illness, which I am increasingly convinced it is, the acknowledgement of this will be overwhelming, esp for MIL. They are a family that withholds their emotions in a major way--they never confront each other in a healthy, honest way. DH has said this and I have witnessed this. My side is far from perfect, but this withholding is very pronounced in their family. Thank you again to all for your empathy, sympathy, and advise. It has helped.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks, posters. It's a very confusing situation--we vascillate between thinking he is ill and like this is just his personality. If it is an illness, it is definitely untreated. I have a bipolar family member so I know what bipolar can look like--MIL insists BIL is but I'm not so sure. I feel for BIL, I really do but he is so beastly to my DH and causes DH so much pain--I try not to be angry bc I know it is a possibility that this is a true illness. But when I am around him I really get the sense that he is really just self-actualizing--that he has no idea who he really is and this is something that works for him now. I don't know, and I guess I need to accept that I may not. Regardless, his behavior is the same and cause for concern. Sigh. That's PP for the great suggestions on what to say to MIL. I dread this but I know if I don't and we go and it is as it has been in the past I will be so regretful and nervous. Not a great holiday for my kids, at the very least.

I don't know how anyone could think this was a personality issue - your BIL is in the decline of a serious mental illness. I am so sorry for your family.

Also, so sorry for the typos and autocorrects. I am typing on my phone and not doing a good job of it. (How did "reaction" autocorrect to "traction"?!) thank you again.

Thanks so much to all of you for your opinions and your insights. I am incredibly sad that my BIL has not gotten help; the poster who said this begins 17-24 was spot on. When I let DH his brother was a sweet geeky awkward young teen. I was taken by how kind he was to me, honestly, and I always liked him. Also, he is Dhs only brother (he has sisters, too) so I always expected they would have a relationship. Since graduating from HS every year he has gotten more and more lost and distant. DH has tried to step in, as ILs at least in the beginning kepy saying it was a learning disability that was the reason he was getting more and more frustrated and angry. That may be true but my perspective was that they were trying to force college on him when e woul have rather been doing something else. I thought he would have made an awesome tattoo artist for example, his art is so precise. Anyway, I think the years jeered intervention could have helped went by with them focusing on the college thing--he never finished anyway--I suggested he learn a trade but FIL is a phd and I think that was not well received. To the issue of whether he could be violent: I'd like to think no, but I cannot say for sure. I pray to God not. He's become fundamentalist in his thinking and behavior, which is intimidating to me. The more I am writing this and thinking about your responses the more I am convinced this is untreated mental illness. I am so saddened too that the stigma may have keep him from help. When I hear that someone has gotten help for themselves or a family member my first traction to this is always respect that they had the strength and the ability to make that happen. Thank you all. I am going to talk to DH about what you have offered in terms of insight and advice and hopefully we can come up with something that we can feel ok with.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry you are dealing with this. And that I agree you probably need to explain this to your kids, in an age-appropriate way.

Anonymous wrote:He doesn't sound bipolar. He sounds like he has a thought disorder more like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder.

Yep. This sounds EXACTLY like my BIL, and this is his diagnosis. Unfortunately, my BIL also became violent as a result of his delusions, and ended up in jail for a stint. OP, your instincts are right. This is not a safe situation.

OP, I'm sorry you and your husband are dealing with this and I admire you for being so considerate of your MIL's relationship w/BIL, dysfunctional as it may be. That said, it sounds like going just for the day is an ideal solution for your family. That way you don't have to deal with either staying with them or explaining about a hotel.

My in-laws live 2.5 hours away, and we never stay overnight. It's really not a very long trip. Just arrive early and leave after dessert.

Just go for the day. You can always cut it short and leave early if it is unbearable.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks, posters. It's a very confusing situation--we vascillate between thinking he is ill and like this is just his personality. If it is an illness, it is definitely untreated. I have a bipolar family member so I know what bipolar can look like--MIL insists BIL is but I'm not so sure. I feel for BIL, I really do but he is so beastly to my DH and causes DH so much pain--I try not to be angry bc I know it is a possibility that this is a true illness. But when I am around him I really get the sense that he is really just self-actualizing--that he has no idea who he really is and this is something that works for him now. I don't know, and I guess I need to accept that I may not. Regardless, his behavior is the same and cause for concern. Sigh. That's PP for the great suggestions on what to say to MIL. I dread this but I know if I don't and we go and it is as it has been in the past I will be so regretful and nervous. Not a great holiday for my kids, at the very least.

It's a no brainer. I would not put myself or children in that situation. I rather get flack for not going, than going into that mess. Just put on your big girl pants and say that you have different plans for the holidays.

Get a hotel room or
Spend Christmas with you husbands siblings or

It is sad to see the stigma of mental illness still preventing people from getting help. I don't know when Op's BIL began showing any signs but it usually starts around 17-24. Early intervention and immediate treatment lead to much better outcomes.

It is sad to see Ops BIL so sick and living in this delusional world, when early intervention would have likely meant recovery and possibly remission and a much more fulfilling and meaningful life for him.

Treatment now could still be beneficial but adherence at this point especially with a family in denial is very unlikely.