Anonymous
10/26/2013 18:08
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
I've been a Harvard interviewer in this area for a while. We see a lot of great kids coming out of Whitman and BCC, and of course Blair Magnet. The kids from the other high schools are less competitive for a few reasons. Some don't have the academics (a common refrain among interviewers is "I'd never get in today", where SATs of all 750+, at least 3 APs with 5's as a junior and weighted GPA well over 4 only puts you in the top third of applicants, and Harvard takes the top fourth of that group.) However, a lot of it is the lack of extracurricular distinction. Kids stuck in cul-de-sacs tend to have less involvement In extracurriculars, and don't have the leadership or the independent research projects that we see at the most competitive schools.
Anonymous
10/26/2013 16:22
Subject: Re:MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
That was my post above. Yes, FA is very dependent on your family's situation, and I sort of glossed over this issue when I cited $120k. If you have another kid in college, for example, this may qualify your kid for FA, but having siblings in private school won't help.
Harvard and maybe a few other Ivies have promised to help middle class families with grant aid. But the range of generosity varies. I think it's the case that Harvard, which has the biggest endowment and offers the most generous FA, has promised aid to any family with HHI under $120 (and presumably depending on things like having other siblings in college). This aid is on a sliding scale, so the kid from a family with HHI=$50K is going to get a better package than the kid with HHI=$120k. As I say, Harvard has a huge endowment and can afford to be more generous with FA than any other Ivy. And, of course, your kid has to get into Harvard....
15:59 here. I read a NY times article that Harvard was giving aid to families as high as 180K and were doing a calculation that tried to keep the cost of college at roughly a certain percent of income and assets--essentially putting the cost on a sliding scale. But Harvard (along with a few others, like Stanford) are among some of the most highly endowed schools and can afford to have a very progressive and generous financial aid policy. And of course, if you receive a grant of 10K, by the time you pay for room and board and books that's still a bill of 50K...
Anonymous
10/26/2013 16:20
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Here are some facts to keep in mind. This debate keeps coming back.
Yes, Harvard offers FA for families with incomes up to $120k. But...
- To get this generous Harvard FA, your kid has to get into Harvard.
- Harvard is the most generous college out there, besides the Curtis School of Music, that art school in NYC whose name I forget (and even that's changing, I hear), CalTech (although I'm not sure about that one) and is it Berea college in Kentucky, all of which offer full rides.
- Most college FA packages, including from most other Ivies, are less generous.
- Less generous means: these Ivies offer less grant aid, they offer a mix of loans with the grants, and families are helped up to levels that are much below $120k.
- For families with household incomes over $120k, FA won't be available unless you have other circumstances, like another sibling in college, or really high medical bills. To put this in DMV terms, a family with one government worker and a SAHM, or a family with both parents working at not-for-profits, is probably not going to get FA.
- And yet, a family with income of $120-200k is going to struggle to pay bills in the DMV area, while still saving for college.
- Merit aid from second-tier schools is starting to look really appealing!
Yes, Harvard offers FA for families with incomes up to $120k. But...
- To get this generous Harvard FA, your kid has to get into Harvard.
- Harvard is the most generous college out there, besides the Curtis School of Music, that art school in NYC whose name I forget (and even that's changing, I hear), CalTech (although I'm not sure about that one) and is it Berea college in Kentucky, all of which offer full rides.
- Most college FA packages, including from most other Ivies, are less generous.
- Less generous means: these Ivies offer less grant aid, they offer a mix of loans with the grants, and families are helped up to levels that are much below $120k.
- For families with household incomes over $120k, FA won't be available unless you have other circumstances, like another sibling in college, or really high medical bills. To put this in DMV terms, a family with one government worker and a SAHM, or a family with both parents working at not-for-profits, is probably not going to get FA.
- And yet, a family with income of $120-200k is going to struggle to pay bills in the DMV area, while still saving for college.
- Merit aid from second-tier schools is starting to look really appealing!
Anonymous
10/26/2013 16:08
Subject: Re:MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Anonymous wrote:The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K.
Could you please provide any reference? I know that HYP offer FA to low income families. Here is a calculator for estimating FA from Harvard. https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator
The ivies and several other top institutions don't offer merit aid, only aid for demonstrated financial need. Sometimes this aid includes subsidized loans in addition to scholarships/grants and work-study, so this is "aid" but perhaps not as most parents who don't want to give their kids a high debt burden see it. Schools with large endowments like Harvard tend to be more generous for qualified students, but one thing to keep in mind is that there are a variety of things that might come into play when you are talking about financial aid. For example, assets, number of people in the family, number of kids in college. For an HHI of $120K, the aid picture is going to look a lot different for a family of 3 where the parents have a healthy amount in savings and assets in the stock market than it will for a family of six with limited savings and a couple kids in college. Perhaps for a typical situation in this area (small family, healthy amount of savings and assets), the aid package might not be super doable for an upper middle class family that is financially risk-adverse. These things are so situation dependent that it's hard to make generalizations--just apply where you are qualified and look at the financial aid packages.
That was my post above. Yes, FA is very dependent on your family's situation, and I sort of glossed over this issue when I cited $120k. If you have another kid in college, for example, this may qualify your kid for FA, but having siblings in private school won't help.
Harvard and maybe a few other Ivies have promised to help middle class families with grant aid. But the range of generosity varies. I think it's the case that Harvard, which has the biggest endowment and offers the most generous FA, has promised aid to any family with HHI under $120 (and presumably depending on things like having other siblings in college). This aid is on a sliding scale, so the kid from a family with HHI=$50K is going to get a better package than the kid with HHI=$120k. As I say, Harvard has a huge endowment and can afford to be more generous with FA than any other Ivy. And, of course, your kid has to get into Harvard....
Anonymous
10/26/2013 15:59
Subject: Re:MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K.
Could you please provide any reference? I know that HYP offer FA to low income families. Here is a calculator for estimating FA from Harvard. https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator
The ivies and several other top institutions don't offer merit aid, only aid for demonstrated financial need. Sometimes this aid includes subsidized loans in addition to scholarships/grants and work-study, so this is "aid" but perhaps not as most parents who don't want to give their kids a high debt burden see it. Schools with large endowments like Harvard tend to be more generous for qualified students, but one thing to keep in mind is that there are a variety of things that might come into play when you are talking about financial aid. For example, assets, number of people in the family, number of kids in college. For an HHI of $120K, the aid picture is going to look a lot different for a family of 3 where the parents have a healthy amount in savings and assets in the stock market than it will for a family of six with limited savings and a couple kids in college. Perhaps for a typical situation in this area (small family, healthy amount of savings and assets), the aid package might not be super doable for an upper middle class family that is financially risk-adverse. These things are so situation dependent that it's hard to make generalizations--just apply where you are qualified and look at the financial aid packages.
Anonymous
10/26/2013 15:34
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Anonymous wrote:DC, who has been in private and public schools, graduated from a big MCPS this year and has just started at a top Ivy that I'm sure OP would be happy for her kid to attend.
Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.
The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K.
Could you please provide any reference? I know that HYP offer FA to low income families. Here is a calculator for estimating FA from Harvard. https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator
Anonymous
10/26/2013 12:45
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Anonymous wrote:We're trying to decide whether to start saving for private high school or stay in MCPS. I was very shocked at how bad competitive college acceptance was for MCPS including the four "W" schools. We are not aspiring for Ivy league. Our kids are very smart but normal not gifted. Athletic but not national championship level. I hate the idea of paying for 4 years of private school and then college but I don't want UMD to be the top high stretch goal school and a community college to be the probably choice.
Is there a reason why MCPS grads' acceptances are so incredibly low?
This is an absolutely false characterization of the choices facing good students at MoCo public schools. If you had access to Naviance for our big MoCo public, where you can see all the kids applying to SLACs and Ivies, and where you can also see how things turn out for the kids who apply to these schools, you'd understand how completely wrong you are.
Anonymous
10/26/2013 12:36
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
On what planet is going to a good 4-year state school a failure?
Absolutely ridiculous.
Signed, an Ivy grad, married to an Ivy grad who had always thought she had snobbish tendencies until she started reading DCUM
Absolutely ridiculous.
Signed, an Ivy grad, married to an Ivy grad who had always thought she had snobbish tendencies until she started reading DCUM
Anonymous
10/26/2013 12:24
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DC, who has been in private and public schools, graduated from a big MCPS this year and has just started at a top Ivy that I'm sure OP would be happy for her kid to attend.
Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.
Turning down a top Ivy to go to Fordham seems ridiculous to me when you consider the advantages over the long run.
PP here. I know the kid in question. Going to the top Ivy would have required borrowing over $100K. That would have been ridiculous.
Anonymous
10/26/2013 11:47
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Anonymous wrote:DC, who has been in private and public schools, graduated from a big MCPS this year and has just started at a top Ivy that I'm sure OP would be happy for her kid to attend.
Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.
Turning down a top Ivy to go to Fordham seems ridiculous to me when you consider the advantages over the long run.
Anonymous
10/26/2013 11:37
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Anonymous wrote:DC, who has been in private and public schools, graduated from a big MCPS this year and has just started at a top Ivy that I'm sure OP would be happy for her kid to attend.
Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.
PP again. I guess the moral here is, if your kid is a legacy, or you think s/he will be a NMSSF or have recruitable athletic ability, and/or you can afford for your kid to apply ED to a top ivy, then private school might be the ticket. Otherwise, from what I've seen, I don't think private school confers much of an advantage on nice, "normal" kids with good but not stellar grades and SATs.
Anonymous
10/26/2013 11:27
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
DC, who has been in private and public schools, graduated from a big MCPS this year and has just started at a top Ivy that I'm sure OP would be happy for her kid to attend.
Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.
Here's what we have seen:
- Lots and lots of DC's friends got money, including full rides, to go to UMD and other schools like Temple. I don't consider this a "failure" at all. These were middle class families that needed the money to do college at all. It's been discussed here ad nauseum that FA is hard to get if your family earns more than $50K, and almost impossible to get if your family earns over $100K. The Ivies don't offer merit aid or FA for family income under $120K. For these middle class families I'd definitely call the UMD merit aid package a "success."
- 4-5 of DC's close friends turned down top Ivies that OP would probably love for her kids to attend. I've heard of more kids in this position but I don't know the particulars. This is because they got money, including full rides, at places like Fordham and Georgetown. Again, not a failure in the least, more like a big success.
- Going to private high school is no guarantee that your own particular kid will go to an Ivy. DC has kept in touch with classmates who are in local privates like Sidwell, NCS, Landon and Bullis. It's important to realize that these schools select kids for their top test scores and athletic ability. A much larger percentage of these classes will be applying to Ivies, and your kid will be competing directly against NMSFs and athletic recruits. Sidwell asked about legacy status in DC's year, but in general it's likely that your kid will be competing against more legacy kids in any of the top privates. Also, a much higher percentage of private school kids will be applying ED to ivies with the expectation of being full pay there, and being ED and full pay are huge advantages in admissions.
Anonymous
10/26/2013 08:43
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Or maybe it's not the true college experience unless the campus looks like Amherst College in the fall, or Occidental College any time of year?
Anonymous
10/26/2013 08:38
Subject: MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Lacking the true college experience = not wanting to see the kids on the weekends or have them come home to do laundry
Anonymous
10/26/2013 08:33
Subject: Re:MCPS competitive college acceptance very poor
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
This might be true, but IMO, it lacks a "true college experience". I wouldn't want my child to go to UMD, and at our private school (not a Big 3) it's considered a failure to go to UMD.
This says a lot more about the people at your private school than about UMD.
Why would you not want your child to go to UMD?
UMD is an excellent school, especially for STEM fields. Not sure why it lacks a "true college experience". It's going to be in the B10 for goodness sake. The area isn't the nicest, but the campus is fine.