Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 23:42     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
I had a bris for my 2 boys. Neither one of them cried or fussed during or after the procedure. The cutting takes about 1 to 2 minutes. I did not watch but breastfed right after. It took about a week to heal. Dr Andrew engel performed both circumcisions, I highly recommend him.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 22:48     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hear about men being ashamed of being "different" and getting it done later in life. If you think your son will probably also want to marry Jewish maybe it's better he's cut for a womann who's already likely biased. It probably seems weird to be thinking that far ahead, but again, this decision will affect the rest of his entire life and if you feel strongly against it, I wouldn't cave in.


You are hearing that from old uncut men, because circumcision was the rule when they were growing up. Uncut babies born this year are just the same as half of their peers.


But not the same as most - an overwhelming majority - of thier Jewish peers.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 22:03     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Im the mother of three girls, so I never had to deal with this.
But two observations:

1) I saw the place at the hospital that they insert the infants' bodies' into to circumcise them. It looked 100% awful; it was plastic, and I am sure it had been cleaned, but there bloodstains on the crotch area.
2) The nurse told us that many babies just chew on a pacifier or parents' thumb and it's not a biggie for them. And she was openly anti-c.


Have you seen a Bris?

I was a Sendak at the last one I went to. Baby didn't cry, there was no blood. There is a reason Jewish law does it on the 8th day (if the baby is healthy).

The baby was probably drugged, and there's no way there wasn't any blood. Exactly how closely did you examine the operation?


Not this PP, but they don't drug babies at a bris, and the Sandak holds the child, so I imagine the PP got a pretty close view.

Anyway, OP, I too would encourage you to speak with a few rabbis if you are worried about the religious aspect. I would be kind of surprised if a rabbi inquired about this at a bar mitzvah, because I think most will simply assume your son has been circumcised since most Jews do it. Not sure about a wedding. I can't recall if our rabbi asked DH if he was circumcised before he agreed to marry us. It's not impossible; he may have. But we are Conservative; I imagine a more humanistic rabbi wouldn't bother.

You know of course that you don't have to be present for the circumcision if you will find it too upsetting. And that the vast majority have no complications, though like any surgery or medical procedure, there are always exceptions. But it sounds like your primary objection is to the idea, not just the implementation, so that is something you will have to work out with your husband.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 21:51     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:I would strongly prefer not to circumcise our baby if we have a son, however my husband feels strongly that we should (we are Jewish). We still haven't decided what we are going to do, but I'm just curious, if you were opposed to circumcising your son or had serious reservations about it, but went ahead with it anyway, how did you feel during and after the procedure? Did you have certain requirements for doing the procedure (hiring a mohel, insisting on being present with your baby, having your baby not strapped down, waiting some period of time before doing it, etc.) that made you feel more at peace with it? Did you have lingering anger, resentment, guilt, regret, etc. afterwards, or was it just okay once it was done? Did your child experience any complications? I do not want this to devolve into a circumcision debate -- I'm very clear on what some people see as the pros and the cons, and am more looking for the specific experiences of those like myself who had concerns about circumcision but went ahead with it anyway. Thanks.


OP, here are 33 pages worth of stories from parents who circumcised their sons and wisht hey hadn't. not sure how many are Jewish. good luck with your decision. http://www.mothering.com/community/t/112410/if-you-regret-circumcising-your-son-s-please-post-here
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 21:48     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Im the mother of three girls, so I never had to deal with this.
But two observations:

1) I saw the place at the hospital that they insert the infants' bodies' into to circumcise them. It looked 100% awful; it was plastic, and I am sure it had been cleaned, but there bloodstains on the crotch area.
2) The nurse told us that many babies just chew on a pacifier or parents' thumb and it's not a biggie for them. And she was openly anti-c.


Have you seen a Bris?

I was a Sendak at the last one I went to. Baby didn't cry, there was no blood. There is a reason Jewish law does it on the 8th day (if the baby is healthy).

The baby was probably drugged, and there's no way there wasn't any blood. Exactly how closely did you examine the operation?
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 21:47     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Actually I found your post helpful. These are all good things to think about. On one hand, I don't want my child to be denied the opportunity for a bar mitzvah. or a jewish wedding. On the other hand, I resent the idea that I'd have to cut off part of my child's body in order for him to participate in these rites of passage. I'd ideally like to find a jewish community (Humanistic perhaps?) that would accept him and us regardless of what his penis looks like, and that would place priority on the many other ways that we are committed to Judaism. I'm not sure if such a community exists -- we are exploring that and will be meeting with some rabbis, and I will ask him about some of the things you mention, as they are good to think about.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm going to come at it from a Jewish angle, verses a circumcision angle.... If you don't have a bris, there will be no bris certificate or official naming ceremony. The naming is nice for all the relatives. The bris certificate is always good to have, cause, we'll. you never know! Also, do you plan your son to have a bar mitzvah? The rabbi may not let him have one if he hasn't had a bris. He may not be able to have a Jewish wedding if he doesn't have a bris. Are you okay with all of that? Maybe even talk to a rabbi if you are having issues with the medical part of the bris. Good luck.


Sorry, op! I just reread your original question, and realized this wasn't very helpful to ur question. I wish you luck regardless!


Me again-- I hope you can find a congregation you feel at home in! I don't know where you live, but temple Micah by cathedral heights is super progressive. Also on 16th street, near silver spring, there's a congregation that I believe meets in the basement of the ethical society (?), that is pretty humanistic and open, too. Feel well!
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 21:46     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:I hear about men being ashamed of being "different" and getting it done later in life. If you think your son will probably also want to marry Jewish maybe it's better he's cut for a womann who's already likely biased. It probably seems weird to be thinking that far ahead, but again, this decision will affect the rest of his entire life and if you feel strongly against it, I wouldn't cave in.


You are hearing that from old uncut men, because circumcision was the rule when they were growing up. Uncut babies born this year are just the same as half of their peers.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 21:27     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you husband feels so strongly and you're jewish, you should do it. I think that husbands get more say in this because they're men and have lived with being circed or not circed their whole lives.


Yes, this. Women don't really get a vote in this.


Why not? I've actually seen both and how they function -- my husband hasn't.
+1000
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 20:43     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
I was there. There is a reason it is done on day 8 (clotting is one of them). I also think trained mohels do a better job.

Or maybe the kid was a freak. That, too, is possible.

I wouldn't let an OB do the procedure. But I wouldn't do it the next day after birth either.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 20:38     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Im the mother of three girls, so I never had to deal with this.
But two observations:

1) I saw the place at the hospital that they insert the infants' bodies' into to circumcise them. It looked 100% awful; it was plastic, and I am sure it had been cleaned, but there bloodstains on the crotch area.
2) The nurse told us that many babies just chew on a pacifier or parents' thumb and it's not a biggie for them. And she was openly anti-c.


Have you seen a Bris?

I was a Sendak at the last one I went to. Baby didn't cry, there was no blood. There is a reason Jewish law does it on the 8th day (if the baby is healthy).


Oh, do Jewish babies not have blood vessels in their foreskin? You can't tell me there was no bleeding.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 20:30     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Anonymous wrote:Im the mother of three girls, so I never had to deal with this.
But two observations:

1) I saw the place at the hospital that they insert the infants' bodies' into to circumcise them. It looked 100% awful; it was plastic, and I am sure it had been cleaned, but there bloodstains on the crotch area.
2) The nurse told us that many babies just chew on a pacifier or parents' thumb and it's not a biggie for them. And she was openly anti-c.


Have you seen a Bris?

I was a Sendak at the last one I went to. Baby didn't cry, there was no blood. There is a reason Jewish law does it on the 8th day (if the baby is healthy).
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 20:28     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Op, there was a thread a few days ago on the GP forum here about not having a bris if you are jewish. I posted my husbands experience - born in israel and NOT circumcised. He didn't at 18 and is sill angry (a little) that his mom let his dad win.

The issue of marriage is real, but I don't think a rabbi at most US synagogues would care with regard to bar mitzvah.

I say talk to a more progressive rabbi about your concerns.

I have no reservations about ours but it is important to us to raise our child jewish. If you do, I think talking to a rabbi about the religious aspect and possibly a marriage therapist about the relationship aspect in terms of disagreeing with one another. It won't be good to think one 'side' 'won'.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 20:27     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
Im the mother of three girls, so I never had to deal with this.
But two observations:

1) I saw the place at the hospital that they insert the infants' bodies' into to circumcise them. It looked 100% awful; it was plastic, and I am sure it had been cleaned, but there bloodstains on the crotch area.
2) The nurse told us that many babies just chew on a pacifier or parents' thumb and it's not a biggie for them. And she was openly anti-c.
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 20:03     Subject: Re:If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
OP here. I appreciate this reply (and I do greatly value the opinions of doulas).

I worry about being one of those women who agrees to let a circumcision happen in order to avoid my husband's anger/disappointment, and then regrets it later, either because a complication arises, because I'll feel that the experience was emotionally traumatic for the baby or for me, or just because I'll have compromised on my belief that harming a baby as a way to bring them into a culture is not acceptable. At the same time, I do not want my husband to be angry and disappointed for years to come, and I understand that most circumcised men (including my husband) are fine with being circumcised and do not question it.

I like the idea of letting our child decide for himself, though I know that some men later in life do want to be circumcised and then wish it had been done when they were infants. I have no idea how a Jewish child might feel later in life about not having been circumcised (and there are so few of them around that it's hard to figure that out). Also, while my own belief is that any sacrifice made in the name of religion should be made by the person themselves (not by parents on behalf of a child who cannot consent), I understand that for my husband, part of the ritual is the parents doing it at 8 days of life to the child, and anything else really doesn't "count".

I'd like to know/learn more about how adult men experience circumcision if they choose/need it later in life, and whether it is traumatic for them.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

Anonymous wrote:As a doula, I've had women literally sobbing in my arms because they allowed their sons to be circumcised (against their better judgement). I think there is quite a difference between a mom who "would rather not but is okay with doing it" and the mom who truly does not want it done, but agrees to, only to try to keep peace in the house. A close friend of mine is SO bitter and resentful and it has nearly caused a divorce for them; she cannot forgive her husband or herself, and her son is five. In her case, the healing process was difficult and her son needed revision surgeries, which is rare but definitely fueled her anger.

The only path that does not force spouses to choose between two opposing viewpoints is to agree to let the boy decide for himself. Accept that you and your husband have dramatically different beliefs and allow each one to share that perspective as the boy matures, and encourage him to make a decision for himself when he reaches adulthood.

I realize there is a lot talk about how much easier it is to do as a baby, but that is not actually medically true. In reality, an adult (or even older child) circumcision is easier because 1. the boy/man receives general anesthesia during the procedure and can fully self-medicate as needed afterwards; and 2. in an adult, because the penis is fully grown and the foreskin is already retractable, there is no "guessing" as to the correct amount to be removed, thus reducing complications such as tight erections or skin bridges. It also removes the need to forcibly separate the foreskin from the penis, which in an infant circumcision can sometimes cause scarring or other damage such as metal stenosis. Yes, a grown man does have to face the psychological and cultural drama of (potentially) having penile surgery, but at least he can be fully informed, get proper pain relief, and make the decision for himself. Perhaps your husband would be willing to approach the matter in this way?
Anonymous
Post 10/24/2013 19:56     Subject: If you were opposed to circumcision for your son but did it anyway, how did it go?
OP here. Actually I found your post helpful. These are all good things to think about. On one hand, I don't want my child to be denied the opportunity for a bar mitzvah. or a jewish wedding. On the other hand, I resent the idea that I'd have to cut off part of my child's body in order for him to participate in these rites of passage. I'd ideally like to find a jewish community (Humanistic perhaps?) that would accept him and us regardless of what his penis looks like, and that would place priority on the many other ways that we are committed to Judaism. I'm not sure if such a community exists -- we are exploring that and will be meeting with some rabbis, and I will ask him about some of the things you mention, as they are good to think about.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm going to come at it from a Jewish angle, verses a circumcision angle.... If you don't have a bris, there will be no bris certificate or official naming ceremony. The naming is nice for all the relatives. The bris certificate is always good to have, cause, we'll. you never know! Also, do you plan your son to have a bar mitzvah? The rabbi may not let him have one if he hasn't had a bris. He may not be able to have a Jewish wedding if he doesn't have a bris. Are you okay with all of that? Maybe even talk to a rabbi if you are having issues with the medical part of the bris. Good luck.


Sorry, op! I just reread your original question, and realized this wasn't very helpful to ur question. I wish you luck regardless!