Anonymous wrote:[b]
Being 9 or 10 but having a reading disability so you still are in a reading group with 5-6 year olds can be a real blow to the social / emotional development of the child. [b]Not advancing because you learn slower also leads to lack of engagement.

Yep, that's how things are done here in America. We worry about hurting our poor, delicate kids' feelings. We don't want our kids to feel bad about their abilities, so we should keep mixed reading groups? How ridiculous.

And, if that's your argument, do you really think that if you're a 9 year old with a reading disability, you enjoy being in a group of kids more advanced than you? So that you can be reminded about how much you don't know? If it is a true reading disability, the kid really needs some good, solid one-on-one attention from a reading specialist. Just throwing him/her into a group that's too far above his/her reading ability seems useless.

Folks,

Again, there are loads of studies indicating that mixed level ability groupings is best. It doesn't really matter how you feel intuitively or what you did thirty years ago. Schools normally mix three groups of above, on, and below. Phonics instructions is at the level of each group. Whole class instruction is most likely reading comprehension strategies which can be taught whole group because it's applicable whether you read the material, have it read to you, or listen on tape.

Interesting, at our school they didn't let the second graders go past level P.

I also have a second grader who is at a level T and in a reading group at school with 5 other kids. She brings home a "guided reading" book that they are reading in her reading group almost every night. They are alternating reading chapter books and stories from the Junior Great Book series in her reading group.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:REading groups are a waste and the rest of the class is goofing off or doing bland busy work. It needs to end.

+1

What do you suggest they do instead?

Put the kids of similar reading ability in the same classroom, and teach them all simultaneously, all the time.

This seems to make the most sense. For everything. Math, reading, writing.

Why do we group by age? Seems so arbitrary.

Because there is evidence that tracking harms kids who aren't as strong. They benefit from being in a classroom with kids who are further ahead.

Intuitively that makes no sense to me.

If I'm taking a class that is way above my head, I get frustrated and find it hard to follow along. I don't do well. The questions the teacher asks are above my head. The questions the other students ask are above my head. I do better in a class where I know enough to follow along.

How does being in a class that is above your ability level useful?

Being 9 or 10 but having a reading disability so you still are in a reading group with 5-6 year olds can be a real blow to the social / emotional development of the child. Not advancing because you learn slower also leads to lack of engagement. And a 5 year old who reads incredibly well so she is in a reading group with 10 and 11 yr olds may not be the best thing either for her socially / emotionally.

There is a natural tendency when you group kids for instruction to teach to the middle level.

If you have whole group instruction, and your kids range in level from A (lowest) to G (highest) (I'm just making up letters here, not using the actual reading scale), lessons will be geared towards Level D. Kids at levels C, D and E will get the most out of that instruction. Kids at F and G will not improve much, but they won't get worse. Kids at levels A will not get instruction that they can deal with. In this scenario, the kids in level B and C will basically be pushed a bit, to reach the level D which is the average of the class. Some will fail but some will advance because the expectation is higher than where they are.

If you separate the groups into 3 levels, there will be the low group (A, B,C) the middle group (D) and the advanced group (E, F,G). Again there is a natural tendency to gear your lessons to the middle, so now in the low group instruction will be geared to level B. The kids in level C therefore will be held back. You could say that as soon as they are ready the kids in group C will be moved to group D but in reality group D is usually full already so the level C kids will be held back -- there's no room in group D for them.

Grouping works better for kids in the high group because now they will get instruction geared to Group F, instead of group D. It would be particularly beneficial to kids at Level E who now would be pushed by more expectations of working at the F level.

Anonymous wrote:

I am not sure putting kids in a class with kids that are ahead of them always helps. I often see kids (including my younger son) frustrated by not being able to keep up. For some kids this causes them to give up versus motivating them.

This is what I have observed also. The kids who don't 'get' what's going on just seem to end up zoning out. They'd be better served with being at the appropriate level and with a lower teacher/student ratio so they can get the attention they need. Simply being thrown in a class with kids above your ability level does nothing to help kids learn.

A few thoughts on this. I found reading group to be the one time that my "advanced" son got to work with similar peers in K-2. Even though the texts were easy he got to work on his writing. In 3rd grade most/all of the kids are reading well so its not as big an issue.

I am not sure putting kids in a class with kids that are ahead of them always helps. I often see kids (including my younger son) frustrated by not being able to keep up. For some kids this causes them to give up versus motivating them.

I'm a librarian and I always insist on kids picking one "just right book" that is on their reading level, especially if a kid is also checking out something that seems too easy or too hard. But to be fair, I don't know every child's reading level.

When I was trained in guided reading ( a waste of time since it's not germane to the library curriculum) I was told that students should read silently. The teacher circulates and has the kid read to him/her in a low voice so they can observe phonetic/decoding issues and help kids individually.

In my opinion, ability grouping within a classroom makes more sense because the groups are fluid as ability levels change. If you have a class of kids who are all at the same level then it's harder to move kids to different classrooms as their abilities grow. Or you might end up with one class of 5 kids and annother with 30.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:REading groups are a waste and the rest of the class is goofing off or doing bland busy work. It needs to end.

+1

What do you suggest they do instead?

Put the kids of similar reading ability in the same classroom, and teach them all simultaneously, all the time.

This seems to make the most sense. For everything. Math, reading, writing.

Why do we group by age? Seems so arbitrary.

Because there is evidence that tracking harms kids who aren't as strong. They benefit from being in a classroom with kids who are further ahead.

Are you sure it isn't the parents complaining their child shouldn't be in the "dumb" class? I see nothing but parents pushing administration into putting their kids in higher classes they aren't ready for. Honestly, we were all tracked in elementary school with our levels. We weren't mixed. Now everything has to be PC because someone did a study saying it harms them. I personally think it harms the teacher and ALL the students when you mix blend them. I much rather have tracked classes and give the lowest tracked class the lowest student/teacher ratio. It makes so much sense.

I also think the diversity will show up poorly and complaints will be made about that too. It is walking on eggshells in public school. They are all there to please the parents and not tell them to "shut up and let us teach your kids!"

OP, it sounds like the school may not be doing enough to accommodate your child. As a PP mentioned, R is very high for second grade - it is a fourth grade level. It may be that your child needs to have reading groups with older kids, which the school probably won't want to do because of the scheduling hassle. You may have to push them a bit if it turns out that is what is best for your child. My first step would be to schedule a meeting the teacher to discuss your concerns.

Anonymous wrote:
Intuitively that makes no sense to me.

If I'm taking a class that is way above my head, I get frustrated and find it hard to follow along. I don't do well. The questions the teacher asks are above my head. The questions the other students ask are above my head. I do better in a class where I know enough to follow along.

How does being in a class that is above your ability level useful?

Intuitively, yes, it might seem that if you have a low ability level, being in a class with others with the same low ability level would be best. But there are stacks of studies showing that this is rarely true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:REading groups are a waste and the rest of the class is goofing off or doing bland busy work. It needs to end.

+1

What do you suggest they do instead?

Put the kids of similar reading ability in the same classroom, and teach them all simultaneously, all the time.

This seems to make the most sense. For everything. Math, reading, writing.

Why do we group by age? Seems so arbitrary.

Because there is evidence that tracking harms kids who aren't as strong. They benefit from being in a classroom with kids who are further ahead.

Intuitively that makes no sense to me.

If I'm taking a class that is way above my head, I get frustrated and find it hard to follow along. I don't do well. The questions the teacher asks are above my head. The questions the other students ask are above my head. I do better in a class where I know enough to follow along.

How does being in a class that is above your ability level useful?