Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Mostly, I think parents would be dishonest, because they want to portray their child as naturally gifted.

Actually, most parents do not prep their kids, so there would be no need to be dishonest. It might seem from reading this board that a lot of parents prep their kids, but out in real life, a much smaller percentage engage in this practice.

you are naïve. For certain groups it's pretty much a way of life.

[b]That might be true, but it is also true that most people do not do this.[/b]

since only 18% get into AAP, you are probably right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Mostly, I think parents would be dishonest, because they want to portray their child as naturally gifted.

Actually, most parents do not prep their kids, so there would be no need to be dishonest. It might seem from reading this board that a lot of parents prep their kids, but out in real life, a much smaller percentage engage in this practice.

you are naïve. For certain groups it's pretty much a way of life.

That might be true, but it is also true that most people do not do this.

It doesn't sound like the teacher was implying anything. It sounds like the assistant principal was tracking which children admitted to seeing similar questions. Obviously the information will be included in the files-otherwise why ask in the first place?

My kid could have said "yes" to seeing question like this at home... we looked at a CogAt book several years ago when older sibling was getting ready to take the test. My now-2nd grader hasn't "prepped" since seeing the practice book 2 years ago, but he remembers these questions b/c we called them "brain puzzles" and he thought they were fun to try 2 years ago. I didn't bother "prepping" him b/c he's already in the pool based on NNAT and I want to see how he would do without any practice at all. Older sibling was not in the pool based on NNAT, and I wanted to make sure she had a clue of what these tests were about. We didn't spend "hours" or "weeks" on it, we just use it as a "brain puzzle" to get the idea of flipping and twisting shapes.

At any rate, a question like that from the teacher may imply something about prepping that isn't true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Mostly, I think parents would be dishonest, because they want to portray their child as naturally gifted.

Actually, most parents do not prep their kids, so there would be no need to be dishonest. It might seem from reading this board that a lot of parents prep their kids, but out in real life, a much smaller percentage engage in this practice.

you are naïve. For certain groups it's pretty much a way of life.

Anonymous wrote: Mostly, I think parents would be dishonest, because they want to portray their child as naturally gifted.

Actually, most parents do not prep their kids, so there would be no need to be dishonest. It might seem from reading this board that a lot of parents prep their kids, but out in real life, a much smaller percentage engage in this practice.

Anonymous wrote:Precisely, I think most parents might either deny or downplay the amount of prep. Also the definition of prep varies from "reading to my child daily, taking them to museums, generally offering opportunities for exposure to intellectually stimulating activities" to "reviewed a few test taking strategies, format, etc" to "extensive 6 week test prep course over the summer" etc. Plus, you can't discount every kid that was prepped, because that kid might have scored judt as well without, you'll never know, because you can't have 2 parallel situations happening at once. Mostly, I think parents would be dishonest, because they want to portray their child as naturally gifted.

These two would be my definitions of prepping for the purposes of the study. And I would not be studying whether test prep caused kids to get a better score on the test, but more narrowly, I would be comparing test scores and GBRS of prepped kids and non-prepped kids. I would be comparing the test scores to the GBRS scores, not whether the scores of prepped kids were different than those of non-prepped kids. The point would be to see if there was a close relationship between the test and GBRS scores and whether the relationship was closer in the prepped or non-prepped population.

Anonymous wrote:Now the teachers will also have to ask "Did anyone tell you to lie when I asked you the first question?"

Precisely, I think most parents might either deny or downplay the amount of prep. Also the definition of prep varies from "reading to my child daily, taking them to museums, generally offering opportunities for exposure to intellectually stimulating activities" to "reviewed a few test taking strategies, format, etc" to "extensive 6 week test prep course over the summer" etc. Plus, you can't discount every kid that was prepped, because that kid might have scored judt as well without, you'll never know, because you can't have 2 parallel situations happening at once. Mostly, I think parents would be dishonest, because they want to portray their child as naturally gifted.

Maybe once the kids were in AAP, you could find out which kids "prepped" and then have the teachers evaluate the "prepped" kids vs the unprepped kids' performance in 3rd grade.

Now the teachers will also have to ask "Did anyone tell you to lie when I asked you the first question?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like it could be just another data point to keep in mind. It would be interesting when the scores come back to know who had seen the questions before and might be helpful in evaluating what the scores mean.

If I were a researcher in this field, I think it would be interesting to do a study comparing test scores and GBRS scores of kids who had prepped for the test and then see a similar comparison of the scores of kids who take the test without test prep. A study like that would be useful to the school district in deciding whether these scores are reliable in identifying which kids need which programs.

Interesting, but impossible study. No way to verify who prepped, how extensively, whether it msde a difference in the score.....no way to measure/control the variables.

Good points. I would hope that it would be possible to enroll families in the study who would agree to be honest.

Oh, but are you saying that the test prep families would be afraid to admit that they had prepped out of concern that their children's scores would be discounted? Hmm, that could be a problem, but maybe there would be a way to do it that would guarantee anonymity.

Anyway, I do think it would be an intriguing subject to study.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like it could be just another data point to keep in mind. It would be interesting when the scores come back to know who had seen the questions before and might be helpful in evaluating what the scores mean.

If I were a researcher in this field, I think it would be interesting to do a study comparing test scores and GBRS scores of kids who had prepped for the test and then see a similar comparison of the scores of kids who take the test without test prep. A study like that would be useful to the school district in deciding whether these scores are reliable in identifying which kids need which programs.

Interesting, but impossible study. No way to verify who prepped, how extensively, whether it msde a difference in the score.....no way to measure/control the variables.

Automatically knock 2 points off the GBRS.

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised ALL the kids didn't raise their hands. My DS's class did a "practice" version of the CogAt last week during school. If they asked that question today before they did the first part of the real test, all of the kids should have raised their hands.

The OP said that the kids were asked if they had seen the questions "before, but not at school."