Anonymous
10/11/2013 15:41
Subject: IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Anonymous wrote:On one more thing; not what I want to hear? YOu fucking idiot. I want to hear that this is NOT what he has, you asshole. I have been through HELL. I did NOT want to HEAR ANYthing but the way to heal this family. DH is the one failing to step up to te plate. I have had enough of his patterns. YOU ARROGANT ASSHOLE. YOu dont know anything about what I wanted to hear. HEAR THIS YOU ARE A FUCKING PRICK.
This is the kind of BPD rant I get from my DW.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 11:12
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
When Hope is Not Enough by Bon Dobbs
www.anythingtostopthepain.com -- a website run by the author.
He also has an email group -- you just have to get cleared to be let in. He doesn't want people that just want to bash people with BPD. There's lots of other places for that on the internet. I'm sure you'll find them soon enough OP. You actually exhibit many Borderline symptoms. One of them is failure to ever recognize your mistakes or say your were wrong or apologize. Someone tried to help you -- gave you a resources -- and you responded with expletives. Other people pointed out to you that this said quite a bit about you, but you paid not attention. You just continued to justify yourself. Classic BPD.
www.anythingtostopthepain.com -- a website run by the author.
He also has an email group -- you just have to get cleared to be let in. He doesn't want people that just want to bash people with BPD. There's lots of other places for that on the internet. I'm sure you'll find them soon enough OP. You actually exhibit many Borderline symptoms. One of them is failure to ever recognize your mistakes or say your were wrong or apologize. Someone tried to help you -- gave you a resources -- and you responded with expletives. Other people pointed out to you that this said quite a bit about you, but you paid not attention. You just continued to justify yourself. Classic BPD.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 11:02
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
OP, you are profoundly over-entitled. First of all, no one owes it to you to identity themselves as mentally ill or the family member of someone mentally ill and share their story. Second, one person has, and another person posted a video in which four people recount their personal experiences (as well as their families) and experts weigh in, and someone also provided you with a link for family members of those with BPD. I agree that you sound a bit emotionally labile yourself. Please get help.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 10:46
Subject: IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Anonymous wrote:I think it is very concerning that your therapist is diagnosing your husband through your description. Not a good idea at all. there are many mental illnesses that look similar on the surface and an expert needs to do a nuanced assessment to determine what is what.
I doubt you would want your husband's therapist to be diagnosing you based on what he tells them in therapy. I would be hesitant to go back to a therapist like yours who is throwing around very heavy diagnostic labels that are influencing your thinking (hence your title) based on a spouse's description.
And borderline is not a death sentence anyways. It is treatable and no longer viewed the way it once was.
+1 to this. Your DH needs a psychiatric evaluation by a psychiatrist experienced in mood disorders. What kind of doc is your DH presently seeing (general physician, psychiatrist, psychiatrist specializing in mood disorders?) What meds has your husband tried? Sometimes depression and ADD can really be misdiagnoses for bipolar depression. Sadly, the medicines prescribed for depression (anti-depressants) and ADD (stimulants) can actually make bipolar depression worse. I say this from experience. IMO, you before jumping to a borderline personality disorder diagnosis, a doctor should be exploring the bipolar diagnosis and trying medication. Key medications for bipolar would be 1) a evidence-based proven mood stabilizer like lithium or depakote and 2) possibly an anti-psychotic. Also, if a patient has failed to respond to several different types of anti-depressants, then it is one of the next steps in the treatment algorithm to try adding a mood stabilizer (with or without removing the AD). The prescribing physician should be talking this through with you both. FWIW, porn addiction can be a part of the hypersexuality of mania. Speeding and impulsivity can also be part of mania. Drug use can often be an attempt to self-medicate. Hope that drug use is over because it is basically impossible to stabilize a mental illness while someone is drinking or drugging. Are you seeing any mania symptoms or any pattern of alteration of moods up/down? Mania can be really irritable instead of happy sometimes (called "dysphoric mania") and mania does not have to be "I can fly" high (lower mania is "Hypomania"). Read up and see what you think.
Even within psychiatry, some doctors sort of wonder if the borderline diagnosis is given to those with bipolar who are inappropriately treated or hard to treat. Doctors are human and don't like to admit they are failing. Borderline is a "personality disorder", and docs are more likely to view personality disorders as "untreatable", whereas bipolar is treatable. Thus, a doctor isn't "failing" when he can't get a patient with a personality disorder to improve. Of course, I realize that it's a non-treating therapist that is making this suggestion, but still. (And, anyway, Borderline is thought to have a better treatment/therapy regimen these days.) I always thought a central feature of the borderline diagnosis was a push/pull fear of abandonment kind of pattern, but I don't see that in the (little) you have mentioned. Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is supposed to be the most effective treatment for Borderline based on medical evidence last time I read in this area.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 08:58
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Anonymous wrote:I would advise you to search the web for information. There are some good resources out there for spouses of people with BPD. I should let you know that BPD can look like other illnesses (PTSD; bipolar in some). So don't assume it is BPD.
The reactive way that you responded on here to suggestions from strangers is indicative of a problem. You are probably overwhelmed and exhausted. Anyone would be. But your free and fluent use of expletives at a rarely minor provocation is concerning. If you do that online, it's likely you are that reactive in real life.
It may be that you can create a calm and centered self (and then be a calm mother to your child) if you are not living with your DH. Having two very emotional and reactive parents is terrible for your child.
Put your own oxygen mask on and then you will be able to help your family.
And this forum is not the place, perhaps, for you to post. There are other forums for BPD and for spouses. Find people who understand. This forum is very general and people may not have firsthand experience with BPD.
Oh, I see. So, you can, from one impression and lack of most information revelant to the very specific reason why I took great offense to a total stranger saying "Thats not what you want to hear", you are qualified to opine about a problem.
The stranger who said "But thats not what you want to hear, you want a pass to leave" was making a hugely offensive statement. I have spent 20 years trying to do everything in my power to stay in the marriage and understand a man who has shown little motivation to understand his own self. Someone who thgought it was ok to simply say sorry after getting in my face, and i mean with nose almost touching, screaming verbally abusive stuff at me. And it would be really great if that was the only problem.
Also, congratulations: You assume I dont hold it together in front ot my child, But I do. IN fact it was DH's explosive anger a few days in front of the kid whie I calmly tried to get him to allow me to simply leave the conversation that has made me fed up.
So, yeah, I think I will take the liberty of letting an arrogant prick who projects his/her situation on mine and makes an inaccurate and unfair character judgement that this is waht he is, and I think he can take a fuck you. Really, I think he can handle that. Thats what sometimes happen when you insult a person online. You might also take a moment to try to figure out why its so important to try to make judgements.
Still awaiting a proper response froma person with direct experience of being in my shoes
Anonymous
10/11/2013 08:27
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
OP many people with BPD were molested or had alcoholic/drug using or mentally ill parents. this means they had to "act normal" This results in a very mixed up personality to put it mildly. Always hiding something, never really being themselves. Also compounding the situation is that often parents are alike (both are mentally ill, both drug users ect) so that there is a doubling up of the problem. It is a very serious diagnosis and difficult to overcome. I don't think your therapist should be diagnosing this for another person after two sessions.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 06:44
Subject: IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
I have been diagnosed with BPD. I am not sure if the diagnosis was correct. This was years ago; I was committed because I was literally beating myself up -- emotional pain that I did not know how to stop. I was trying to knock my self out. I was a very volatile person back then. Very angry, and extremely low sense of self worth. I am also very smart.
They talked me out of the immediate problem at the time, and I went on to finish my degree.
Through therapy, I figured out what was going on...what triggered the episodes. It was anxiety/panic attack driven. But, I had identified my triggers, and took steps to avoid the triggers. This would include antisocial behavior; for example, spying on people to find out what they really though of me. And manipulating the situations so I could avoid the triggers. When I got caught and called out, I went into a downward spiral.
To shorten this, once the triggers were addressed properly: anti anxiety medicine, I no longer have the issues that led to the diagnosis. For me, BPD was a result of trying to deal my my avoiding panic. Zoloft does that for me.
I am also a high performing professional.
They talked me out of the immediate problem at the time, and I went on to finish my degree.
Through therapy, I figured out what was going on...what triggered the episodes. It was anxiety/panic attack driven. But, I had identified my triggers, and took steps to avoid the triggers. This would include antisocial behavior; for example, spying on people to find out what they really though of me. And manipulating the situations so I could avoid the triggers. When I got caught and called out, I went into a downward spiral.
To shorten this, once the triggers were addressed properly: anti anxiety medicine, I no longer have the issues that led to the diagnosis. For me, BPD was a result of trying to deal my my avoiding panic. Zoloft does that for me.
I am also a high performing professional.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 00:34
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Good point by the pp who mentioned that OP does not know if her DH has borderline, let alone any suggestions about medications . I'm the PP mother of a young adult DC with BPD and I really agree with that and should have stated it more emphatically in my post. BPD is not something that a spouse or new therapist can diagnose. It really, really needs to be a full psych evaluation. You want to get it right so that the treatment fits the illness.
(I only mentioned the medications because you will see that they are ones used to treat many other illnesses. They are not uncommon or rare or hard to find. In combination, they work well for my DC. With BPD, you manage the symptoms, which can vary. But a mood stabilizer is a fairly common prescription. This is just in the category of FYI. It is not meant to imply that OPs spouse has BPD. But if it turns out that he does, down the road, there is help available.)
Again, I think there are better online forums than this one in providing help to OP.
(I only mentioned the medications because you will see that they are ones used to treat many other illnesses. They are not uncommon or rare or hard to find. In combination, they work well for my DC. With BPD, you manage the symptoms, which can vary. But a mood stabilizer is a fairly common prescription. This is just in the category of FYI. It is not meant to imply that OPs spouse has BPD. But if it turns out that he does, down the road, there is help available.)
Again, I think there are better online forums than this one in providing help to OP.
Anonymous
10/11/2013 00:10
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Borderline Personality Disorder is the new black these days.
No therapist has any business opining that someone may have BPD unless that therapist has evaluated the person. BPD is very difficult to diagnose -- you don't do it secondhand.
And your therapist is wrong. BPD is not all about thoughts. It is all about emotions. The emotions always come first. Then the thoughts. Then the actions. BPD is about emotion disregulation.
And yes, there are successful treatments for BPD. The include Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, Schema Therapy, and Mentalization Based therapy. Many people with BPD get better.
I also recommend reading "When Hope is not Enough" by Bon Dobbs and visiting his website www.anythingtostopthepain.com. He can give you tools to save your marriage.
THIS is what you need to listen to!
Anonymous
10/11/2013 00:02
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Pp here. I think I misread your post. You did not post that you have a child.
One thing about medication: most people with BPD are candidates for a mood stabilizer. This medication alone can make a difference for your DH.
My DC has BPD and takes seroquel, lamictal, and Zoloft. The combination has truly been effective. That, plus DBT, can help. I am a parent; you are a spouse. Those are different relationships, I know
The thing is she doesn't even know if he has it. he hasn't been assessed or diagnosed. So all the support from families and spouses of people with BPD and suggestions for medications would be great if he actually has BPD.
It is the same as saying that you think your spouse has cancer based on a conversation with a doctor and asking spouses of people with cancer what it it like and how it impacted their marriage etc.. People are going to have the same response - first find out if your spouse actually has a cancer.
Anonymous
10/10/2013 23:55
Subject: IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Family member with BPD. So much easier than spouse, and more distance, but still hard.
Maybe not BPD, could be bipolar, could be dependent personality disorder (in which he is dependent on you, and if you recently had kids, you are less available and this triggering outburst and instability). All of these hard to diagnose and identify; but all very hard to stay married to or build family with. If you stayed with someone their this, it is possible you have low self esteem or own issues to have tolerated so long.
Look into NAMI and go to support groups (some deal specifically with BPD) and you will likely get further insight. We've had multiple diagnose for our family member; they said he was depressed, bipolar, BPD, it keeps changing. I think very hard to diagnose, and hard to work wih so docs often end up dropping patients or they refuse treatment.
Key thing for you: does he recognize something is wrong? Seeking psychiatric treatment? DBT probably good treatment and can even help healthy people in emotional regulation, so make sure you pursue that. May be worth looking at long term residency programs if you have the financial resources such as Gunderson Reisdence at McLean Hospital; long term intensive therapy can make lasting changes. Key is he has to want to change.
Maybe not BPD, could be bipolar, could be dependent personality disorder (in which he is dependent on you, and if you recently had kids, you are less available and this triggering outburst and instability). All of these hard to diagnose and identify; but all very hard to stay married to or build family with. If you stayed with someone their this, it is possible you have low self esteem or own issues to have tolerated so long.
Look into NAMI and go to support groups (some deal specifically with BPD) and you will likely get further insight. We've had multiple diagnose for our family member; they said he was depressed, bipolar, BPD, it keeps changing. I think very hard to diagnose, and hard to work wih so docs often end up dropping patients or they refuse treatment.
Key thing for you: does he recognize something is wrong? Seeking psychiatric treatment? DBT probably good treatment and can even help healthy people in emotional regulation, so make sure you pursue that. May be worth looking at long term residency programs if you have the financial resources such as Gunderson Reisdence at McLean Hospital; long term intensive therapy can make lasting changes. Key is he has to want to change.
Anonymous
10/10/2013 23:17
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Pp here. I think I misread your post. You did not post that you have a child.
One thing about medication: most people with BPD are candidates for a mood stabilizer. This medication alone can make a difference for your DH.
My DC has BPD and takes seroquel, lamictal, and Zoloft. The combination has truly been effective. That, plus DBT, can help. I am a parent; you are a spouse. Those are different relationships, I know
One thing about medication: most people with BPD are candidates for a mood stabilizer. This medication alone can make a difference for your DH.
My DC has BPD and takes seroquel, lamictal, and Zoloft. The combination has truly been effective. That, plus DBT, can help. I am a parent; you are a spouse. Those are different relationships, I know
Anonymous
10/10/2013 23:09
Subject: Re:IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
I would advise you to search the web for information. There are some good resources out there for spouses of people with BPD. I should let you know that BPD can look like other illnesses (PTSD; bipolar in some). So don't assume it is BPD.
The reactive way that you responded on here to suggestions from strangers is indicative of a problem. You are probably overwhelmed and exhausted. Anyone would be. But your free and fluent use of expletives at a rarely minor provocation is concerning. If you do that online, it's likely you are that reactive in real life.
It may be that you can create a calm and centered self (and then be a calm mother to your child) if you are not living with your DH. Having two very emotional and reactive parents is terrible for your child.
Put your own oxygen mask on and then you will be able to help your family.
And this forum is not the place, perhaps, for you to post. There are other forums for BPD and for spouses. Find people who understand. This forum is very general and people may not have firsthand experience with BPD.
The reactive way that you responded on here to suggestions from strangers is indicative of a problem. You are probably overwhelmed and exhausted. Anyone would be. But your free and fluent use of expletives at a rarely minor provocation is concerning. If you do that online, it's likely you are that reactive in real life.
It may be that you can create a calm and centered self (and then be a calm mother to your child) if you are not living with your DH. Having two very emotional and reactive parents is terrible for your child.
Put your own oxygen mask on and then you will be able to help your family.
And this forum is not the place, perhaps, for you to post. There are other forums for BPD and for spouses. Find people who understand. This forum is very general and people may not have firsthand experience with BPD.
Anonymous
10/10/2013 22:20
Subject: IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
Wait, DH is also her patient and she told you her possible diagnosis but did not tell him? Did I misunderstand that? If not, I would in fact like to put your therapist on trial.
Anonymous
10/10/2013 21:33
Subject: IF husband has borderline personality disorder- a death sentence for the marriage?
OP here.
The therapist is new. I have seen her two times, DH has seen her once and we saw her once together.
From all of these meetings she culled together the possibiliy that the behaviors as described by the BPD diagnosis might be a useful guideline to identifying possible causes for certain specific behaviors.
She said the BPD diagnosis has been discredited, that it may in fact NOT be correct, that it is treatable IF it is the case AND the person with is accepts themselves as being OK for who they are, but understanding that they need to change their responses and behaviors to things by rethining assumptions, etc.
She didnt think it was the end of the relationship. She did say I would ultimately, regardless of the diagnosis, have to decide what to do and if I could do whatever needs to be done. She also said I would not have to do "more" but rather just understand that DH is not a bad person but may lack some very basic things to his sense of self leading to responses to things where he really does not know what to do.
As a person who has been the only one in the marriage to ever seek and find counseling for us, and as the only one who has ever done any leg work in finding help, researching things, and so on, I could simply not stand being told by anyone on this list that I am looking for a way out.
What I AM looking for is ANY person who HAS ACTUALLHY BEEN OFFICIALLY DIAGNOSED or is MARRIED to someone who has. I donrt need a lot of conjecture on my therapist or what have you. She cant make me think any thing. I am looking for a person or persons who actually have DIRECT EXPERIENCE with this diagnosis.
And no, none of the posters here know everything. I told the therapist everything. So its not exactly a shocker that she would have some different ideas, having actually been trained to look for these kinds of things, than anyone here, who does NOT know everything and who may or may NOT have been trained.
Lets not put my therapist on trial. I am not married to her. I am not even putting my husband on trial. I am asking a simple question:
ANYONE actually had this diagnosis of themselves or their spouse.
Please advise based on that.
The therapist is new. I have seen her two times, DH has seen her once and we saw her once together.
From all of these meetings she culled together the possibiliy that the behaviors as described by the BPD diagnosis might be a useful guideline to identifying possible causes for certain specific behaviors.
She said the BPD diagnosis has been discredited, that it may in fact NOT be correct, that it is treatable IF it is the case AND the person with is accepts themselves as being OK for who they are, but understanding that they need to change their responses and behaviors to things by rethining assumptions, etc.
She didnt think it was the end of the relationship. She did say I would ultimately, regardless of the diagnosis, have to decide what to do and if I could do whatever needs to be done. She also said I would not have to do "more" but rather just understand that DH is not a bad person but may lack some very basic things to his sense of self leading to responses to things where he really does not know what to do.
As a person who has been the only one in the marriage to ever seek and find counseling for us, and as the only one who has ever done any leg work in finding help, researching things, and so on, I could simply not stand being told by anyone on this list that I am looking for a way out.
What I AM looking for is ANY person who HAS ACTUALLHY BEEN OFFICIALLY DIAGNOSED or is MARRIED to someone who has. I donrt need a lot of conjecture on my therapist or what have you. She cant make me think any thing. I am looking for a person or persons who actually have DIRECT EXPERIENCE with this diagnosis.
And no, none of the posters here know everything. I told the therapist everything. So its not exactly a shocker that she would have some different ideas, having actually been trained to look for these kinds of things, than anyone here, who does NOT know everything and who may or may NOT have been trained.
Lets not put my therapist on trial. I am not married to her. I am not even putting my husband on trial. I am asking a simple question:
ANYONE actually had this diagnosis of themselves or their spouse.
Please advise based on that.