Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His wife left him because he got angry with her and hit the daughter hard enough to make her mouth start bleeding...just to get back at his wife. He was cruel. Is being an abusive monster is a mental illness?

I didn't say mentally ill people can't also be assholes. This guy did not kill himself to piss off his wife. And if he did, that would itself be extremely compelling evidence he was mentally ill.

Sociopath?

OP here - I feel like people are missing the point that his threats are implicit, not explicit, and that since he has refused to get any help of any kind that he's not going to be willing to go to the hospital. I know she would consider admitting him against his will, is that an option if the threats have not been explicit? Finally, she's got two kids living in a house with a withdrawn, often angry, emotionally witholding father so she's got them to think about.

Anonymous wrote:I would have preferred that he spend 2 min thinking about someone other than himself and his own pain to prevent the pain and suffering he has caused my sister and nephew. At least his pain is over. Theirs is going to be a long, long battle. My nephew had nightmares for years dreaming about coming across his father's dead body. But no, that's good. I'm glad my BIL isn't in pain anymore.

You do not get it. Someone who puts a loaded gun into his or her mouth does not think about the pain of others. They are wholly consumed by their own. Show some humanity.

Now we're picking on the suicidal! What next?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. What if I put it this way. What's the best, most compassionate way to leave someone who's mentally ill, refuses to get help, and won't participate in conversations about separation.

You don't just take off and run. You help them. Go to counseling with them. Help them figure out a plan. Stress that you are not leaving to hurt them, and that no relationship can make them happy, and that you will always care about him or her and try to be there for him or her when they need you. Tell then that there will be times when they will not feel this way. Remind them of all the people that love them and would miss them if they were gone. Remind them of their talents and what they have left to give to the world.

Think of something else other than your own immediate need to be done with this person.

And how long do you do this for? Op indicates her friend's husband has been like this for years and won't get help. At some point, her friend's needs and their children's needs are more important. Or should her friend wait until she spirals into a deep depression as well?

People rarely stay extremely and imminently suicidal for long. Suicidal ideation comes and goes, but being imminently suicidal happens much less often. If you are convinced that someone is imminently suicidal, you do not turn your back on them -- you give them your hand. Take them yourself to the hospital, and stay with them until they are admitted. Do not humiliate them with an ambulance. After they are discharged or have calmed down, you need to involve other people that can be a support system for this person. Once you detach -- slowly and with love -- they are much less likely to "threaten" suicide to you. However, if they do reach out to you at some point in crisis -- again, you do not give them your back. You give them your hand.

Anonymous wrote:His wife left him because he got angry with her and hit the daughter hard enough to make her mouth start bleeding...just to get back at his wife. He was cruel. Is being an abusive monster is a mental illness?

I didn't say mentally ill people can't also be assholes. This guy did not kill himself to piss off his wife. And if he did, that would itself be extremely compelling evidence he was mentally ill.

I would have preferred that he spend 2 min thinking about someone other than himself and his own pain to prevent the pain and suffering he has caused my sister and nephew. At least his pain is over. Theirs is going to be a long, long battle. My nephew had nightmares for years dreaming about coming across his father's dead body. But no, that's good. I'm glad my BIL isn't in pain anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known of 2 who used it as a threat to keep the woman they wanted. One never attempted, only made her think he was doing it and wouldn't answer the phone for days. The other committed suicide and his wife and daughter found him.

Doesn't sound to me like the second one got what he wanted. It sounds to me like he was in unimaginable pain.

So he caused unimaginable pain for his wife and daughter? He told his wife to come back or he would kill himself. He was abusive and cruel.

Someone in enough pain to kill themselves is not abusive or cruel to anyone but themselves.

This notion that someone in enough pain to kill themselves successfully should be very neat about it, and not cause any inconvenience to others is astounding. Should they behave like an old dog, and go off someplace to die quietly?

NP here. Yes, I would have preferred that my BIL had gone off somewhere to die quietly rather than shooting himself in the head 5 min after hanging up with my sister and nephew ensuring that they were on their way home. I'm pretty sure that my 8 year old nephew would much rather his dad have done the same because he was the one who found his dad dead in the living room.

I find it profoundly sad that you think somebody in enough pain to shoot themselves in the head should, at the same time, be thinking about the clean-up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. What if I put it this way. What's the best, most compassionate way to leave someone who's mentally ill, refuses to get help, and won't participate in conversations about separation.

You don't just take off and run. You help them. Go to counseling with them. Help them figure out a plan. Stress that you are not leaving to hurt them, and that no relationship can make them happy, and that you will always care about him or her and try to be there for him or her when they need you. Tell then that there will be times when they will not feel this way. Remind them of all the people that love them and would miss them if they were gone. Remind them of their talents and what they have left to give to the world.

Think of something else other than your own immediate need to be done with this person.

And how long do you do this for? Op indicates her friend's husband has been like this for years and won't get help. At some point, her friend's needs and their children's needs are more important. Or should her friend wait until she spirals into a deep depression as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known of 2 who used it as a threat to keep the woman they wanted. One never attempted, only made her think he was doing it and wouldn't answer the phone for days. The other committed suicide and his wife and daughter found him.

Doesn't sound to me like the second one got what he wanted. It sounds to me like he was in unimaginable pain.

So he caused unimaginable pain for his wife and daughter? He told his wife to come back or he would kill himself. He was abusive and cruel.

If the guy actually killed himself, he wasn't using suicide as a threat, he was suicidal. Yeesh.

Yes, it is really, really awful that she had to experience what he put her through, but the notion that he killed himself for the purpose of causing her pain is absurd. He killed himself because he was mentally ill.

His wife left him because he got angry with her and hit the daughter hard enough to make her mouth start bleeding...just to get back at his wife. He was cruel. Is being an abusive monster is a mental illness?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known of 2 who used it as a threat to keep the woman they wanted. One never attempted, only made her think he was doing it and wouldn't answer the phone for days. The other committed suicide and his wife and daughter found him.

Doesn't sound to me like the second one got what he wanted. It sounds to me like he was in unimaginable pain.

So he caused unimaginable pain for his wife and daughter? He told his wife to come back or he would kill himself. He was abusive and cruel.

Someone in enough pain to kill themselves is not abusive or cruel to anyone but themselves.

This notion that someone in enough pain to kill themselves successfully should be very neat about it, and not cause any inconvenience to others is astounding. Should they behave like an old dog, and go off someplace to die quietly?

NP here. Yes, I would have preferred that my BIL had gone off somewhere to die quietly rather than shooting himself in the head 5 min after hanging up with my sister and nephew ensuring that they were on their way home. I'm pretty sure that my 8 year old nephew would much rather his dad have done the same because he was the one who found his dad dead in the living room.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. What if I put it this way. What's the best, most compassionate way to leave someone who's mentally ill, refuses to get help, and won't participate in conversations about separation.

You don't just take off and run. You help them. Go to counseling with them. Help them figure out a plan. Stress that you are not leaving to hurt them, and that no relationship can make them happy, and that you will always care about him or her and try to be there for him or her when they need you. Tell then that there will be times when they will not feel this way. Remind them of all the people that love them and would miss them if they were gone. Remind them of their talents and what they have left to give to the world.

Think of something else other than your own immediate need to be done with this person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known of 2 who used it as a threat to keep the woman they wanted. One never attempted, only made her think he was doing it and wouldn't answer the phone for days. The other committed suicide and his wife and daughter found him.

Doesn't sound to me like the second one got what he wanted. It sounds to me like he was in unimaginable pain.

So he caused unimaginable pain for his wife and daughter? He told his wife to come back or he would kill himself. He was abusive and cruel.

Someone in enough pain to kill themselves is not abusive or cruel to anyone but themselves.

This notion that someone in enough pain to kill themselves successfully should be very neat about it, and not cause any inconvenience to others is astounding. Should they behave like an old dog, and go off someplace to die quietly?

OP here. What if I put it this way. What's the best, most compassionate way to leave someone who's mentally ill, refuses to get help, and won't participate in conversations about separation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known of 2 who used it as a threat to keep the woman they wanted. One never attempted, only made her think he was doing it and wouldn't answer the phone for days. The other committed suicide and his wife and daughter found him.

Doesn't sound to me like the second one got what he wanted. It sounds to me like he was in unimaginable pain.

So he caused unimaginable pain for his wife and daughter? He told his wife to come back or he would kill himself. He was abusive and cruel.

If the guy actually killed himself, he wasn't using suicide as a threat, he was suicidal. Yeesh.

Yes, it is really, really awful that she had to experience what he put her through, but the notion that he killed himself for the purpose of causing her pain is absurd. He killed himself because he was mentally ill.

OP here. Thanks for this advice. I'm still not sure what her next move should be. I want to support her but I'm scared for her and one of the only people (I think the only one) she is talking to about this. She does have her own therapist so I'll ask her what she says, and suggest that she consult with her. The suicide threats have been implicit: "I don't know what I'll do" and when she asks him if he's contemplating suicide he says "I'm not going to tell you." But she's very concerned that it's what he has in mind. He's depressed but I've known him for a couple of decades and even when he's not depressed, he's not nice. I'm not sure he has it in him to be a good husband or father. So while I don't want him to hurt himself, which would be devastating to my friend and her kids, I do want her to get herself out of a very bad, unhealthy situation for everyone. Anyway, thanks for these suggestions.