I agree with everything you wrote, but how does a white person broach this topic without seeming racist at worst or classist at best? I'd hate to be thought of as either.

I am the PP who attended DCPS. I think as a white person, this is not really your battle to fight unless you do want to come off as racist or classist. It doesn't really affect your children's speech in the long run, so with regard to your own children I would let it go. If you are super concerned about the few low SES kids who attend the highest performing DCPS schools (and honestly at places like Lafayette or Janney, many of the AA kids there come from professional families anyway), mention it to a black professional parent who shares concerns and encourage them to broach the topic more tactfully. And as far as your own children go, embrace the fact that they are in a diverse environment with people who come from varied backgrounds.

Anonymous wrote:

I agree with everything you wrote, but how does a white person broach this topic without seeming racist at worst or classist at best? I'd hate to be thought of as either.

What would you say? "I think that basically everybody has to learn Standard American English in order to succeed in life in the US, and actually this is not a problem for my kid because my kid learns it at home, but there are other kids who don't, so they need to learn it in school, but they won't, because Mr./Ms. Teacher doesn't speak it at school?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ I hear you, but OP is referencing a TEACHER. Someone who is hired to teach children content that will enable them to get into college. I'm an AA teacher and believe in setting high expectations for my students.

PP, I agree with you that the SES students will be fine. I'm more concerned with the students who haven't been exposed to proper English. Proper English is what will get them a job (and we all know "respect" in the real world).

Great teachers love learning and improving. This teacher should be given an opportunity to improve her craft and then set your students on the path to COLLEGE and careers that require proper English.

There are numerous success stories of great teachers holding low SES students to high standards and sending 90+% of them on to being the first college graduates in their families.

I'm not discounting previous poster. I understand your experience and think it is GREAT! I just want to call attention to the low SES students and the disservice the teacher is giving them.

I agree with everything you wrote, but how does a white person broach this topic without seeming racist at worst or classist at best? I'd hate to be thought of as either.

Np here - you don't say anything and carry on with your life. Some battles are worth fighting and you can't correct grammar overnight! Just continue reading to your dc.

Anonymous wrote:^^ I hear you, but OP is referencing a TEACHER. Someone who is hired to teach children content that will enable them to get into college. I'm an AA teacher and believe in setting high expectations for my students.

PP, I agree with you that the SES students will be fine. I'm more concerned with the students who haven't been exposed to proper English. Proper English is what will get them a job (and we all know "respect" in the real world).

Great teachers love learning and improving. This teacher should be given an opportunity to improve her craft and then set your students on the path to COLLEGE and careers that require proper English.

There are numerous success stories of great teachers holding low SES students to high standards and sending 90+% of them on to being the first college graduates in their families.

I'm not discounting previous poster. I understand your experience and think it is GREAT! I just want to call attention to the low SES students and the disservice the teacher is giving them.

I agree with everything you wrote, but how does a white person broach this topic without seeming racist at worst or classist at best? I'd hate to be thought of as either.

Am I correct in thinking that there is at least one linguist on this thread?

Your children have amazing abilities to sort out languages/dialects in their head. They will learn whatever dialect is at home, and then they will be influenced by their peers at school....BUT if you're affluent, white, and living in DC -- don't worry about it, you're kid is going to be speaking standard English, no matter what's going on in daycare or preschool.

^^ I hear you, but OP is referencing a TEACHER. Someone who is hired to teach children content that will enable them to get into college. I'm an AA teacher and believe in setting high expectations for my students.

PP, I agree with you that the SES students will be fine. I'm more concerned with the students who haven't been exposed to proper English. Proper English is what will get them a job (and we all know "respect" in the real world).

Great teachers love learning and improving. This teacher should be given an opportunity to improve her craft and then set your students on the path to COLLEGE and careers that require proper English.

There are numerous success stories of great teachers holding low SES students to high standards and sending 90+% of them on to being the first college graduates in their families.

I'm not discounting previous poster. I understand your experience and think it is GREAT! I just want to call attention to the low SES students and the disservice the teacher is giving them.

Oh jeez. I went to DCPS (one of those "JKLM" schools) and some of the teachers and aides didn't always speak 100% grammatically correct English and often spoke with a black dialect. I got a great education there. I am white and upper middle class, and I speak the way my parents speak; I did when I was elementary school age as well. My peers also spoke the way their parents spoke--i.e. generally grammatically correctly. I also read a lot of books--like Tom Sawyer--that were written at least partially in dialect, and I got that people from various backgrounds spoke differently.

Children internalize pretty early on that people perceive you differently if you speak differently, and being white and speaking as if you are white confers advantage socially and academically. I internalized this before I could intellectually comprehend what was going on--if this makes you feel better. It also taught me that people speak differently when they have different cultural backgrounds, and you shouldn't make assumptions about people's intelligence by how they speak. DC has long been a city with a large African American population, and African American vernacular is spoken all over this city--unless you want your kid to live in a bubble, they will encounter black people with black speech patterns, who, yes, are in positions of authority.

I would actually say that after I moved from DC, I realized that I had no issues understanding "black" English the way a lot of upper middle class white people seem to, and I think this is generally a good thing. So I really wouldn't freak out too much about a few "ain'ts" and dropping the "to be" verb in sentences. It does come off as racist, classist, and petty.

No, she doesn't but my son speaks nearly perfect English nevertheless, so I am not too worried about it.

Anonymous wrote:OP here: It's a lot of "We don't have no . . . ". This was the exact type of stuff DC heard at daycare all the time (along with "I be...", "you be...") and he definitely did pick it up from them. I understand what everyone is saying about parents being the biggest influence, and I would like to believe that. But my husband and I do not speak like that, and neither do any of our family or friends, so daycare was the only way DC could have picked up that sort of "grammar." Now he's getting it at DCPS too and it is driving my crazy. Anyone have a successful conversation with a principal about this? I am worried about it coming off as racist.

DC will learn how to code switch -- meaning, talk one way at daycare and talk another way around you.

Op, I can't think of a way to have a meaningful conversation about this with the teacher or principal without it seeming racist. Even if I was AA I'd be afraid of seeming classist. I understand your frustration. Maybe it's time to start looking for a new school for next year. Luckily, your child is young enough for this to not really be an issue going forward since you care enough to address it. Good luck.

Years ago, I taught primarily AA students. An expert came in and told us that we should not correct their "ebonics". One of the AA teachers hit the roof. She said these kids will never get decent jobs if we don't teach proper English.

OP here: It's a lot of "We don't have no . . . ". This was the exact type of stuff DC heard at daycare all the time (along with "I be...", "you be...") and he definitely did pick it up from them. I understand what everyone is saying about parents being the biggest influence, and I would like to believe that. But my husband and I do not speak like that, and neither do any of our family or friends, so daycare was the only way DC could have picked up that sort of "grammar." Now he's getting it at DCPS too and it is driving my crazy. Anyone have a successful conversation with a principal about this? I am worried about it coming off as racist.

Anonymous wrote:Depends on how many hours a week your child is learning the poor speech...

I think op has a kid in dcps. That's full day school, 5 days a week. That's a lot of hours to be exposed to it.

Depends on how many hours a week your child is learning the poor speech...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My children hear Standard American English at home, spoken in a Standard American English accent. When they go out into the world, they hear different versions of English, spoken in different accents. Nothing bad has happened yet.

This. The parents' influence is greatest.

OP, my son goes to a little private school out in the burbs. His teacher is very smart and talented. Love her. But she's from rural Pennsylvania and still speaks like it. Which includes things like "could have went." Nails on the chalkboard for me. But my son doesn't pick it up. I'd take a little more caution with the choice of books you read to him in the early years. Pick ones with good grammar.

I sort of agree. Parents do have the most influence but it's a bit annoying to have to constantly correct poor grammar. You're very fortunate that your son hasn't picked it up. Some children do and I wouldn't feel confident going forward that he'd never pick it up.