Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 20:35     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are going to hate my answer. BOTH. UGGGHHH!

Talk to the rec coach. Explain the situation. For his self confidence and for the fun of it he needs to play with his friends (I assume he has played with these kids a while). Games only or a practice here an there.

If he likes the sport he needs to get better and pay his dues. It is part of life.

Eventually the "being the best player" will wear on him, his team will lean too much on him to win the game and he will start to hate it. He won't actually get better so moving to travel will be harder.

He will eventually get more playing time with the travel team, he will enjoy it more, etc.

My son plays on a travel team and with the same kids since kindergarten. It is the best of both worlds.


Mine did this for a while - classic and travel. He did go to both practices unless they conflicted (which did happen). Lots of kids do this because classic is more relaxed and fun. However you need to look at the rules for the age group - it isn't allowed until a certain age (e.g., MSI classic does not allow travel players to play on classic teams until a certain age). My DC did it in 7th grade, not sure he could have done it any earlier.


We don't allow it until 5th grade. The kid has to have a "relationship" with the team to play rec, like he has played with the team since he was in K, which is the reason for 95% of the kids that do this.


This was super common on my child's rec team. Some kids moved to private school and had school team practices that conflicted, some kids got serious in another sport and had practices that conflicted, kids got involved in the arts, or added a travel team etc . . .

The result was that less than half the kids were at practice each week during the middle school years. I think the fall of 7th grade my kid made it to 1 or 2 practices all season, and he was far from the only one. But by then they were bonded, and looked forward to the rec games as a chance to see old friends they had known since they were tiny.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 19:28     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are going to hate my answer. BOTH. UGGGHHH!

Talk to the rec coach. Explain the situation. For his self confidence and for the fun of it he needs to play with his friends (I assume he has played with these kids a while). Games only or a practice here an there.

If he likes the sport he needs to get better and pay his dues. It is part of life.

Eventually the "being the best player" will wear on him, his team will lean too much on him to win the game and he will start to hate it. He won't actually get better so moving to travel will be harder.

He will eventually get more playing time with the travel team, he will enjoy it more, etc.

My son plays on a travel team and with the same kids since kindergarten. It is the best of both worlds.


Mine did this for a while - classic and travel. He did go to both practices unless they conflicted (which did happen). Lots of kids do this because classic is more relaxed and fun. However you need to look at the rules for the age group - it isn't allowed until a certain age (e.g., MSI classic does not allow travel players to play on classic teams until a certain age). My DC did it in 7th grade, not sure he could have done it any earlier.


We don't allow it until 5th grade. The kid has to have a "relationship" with the team to play rec, like he has played with the team since he was in K, which is the reason for 95% of the kids that do this.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 19:05     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:You are going to hate my answer. BOTH. UGGGHHH!

Talk to the rec coach. Explain the situation. For his self confidence and for the fun of it he needs to play with his friends (I assume he has played with these kids a while). Games only or a practice here an there.

If he likes the sport he needs to get better and pay his dues. It is part of life.

Eventually the "being the best player" will wear on him, his team will lean too much on him to win the game and he will start to hate it. He won't actually get better so moving to travel will be harder.

He will eventually get more playing time with the travel team, he will enjoy it more, etc.

My son plays on a travel team and with the same kids since kindergarten. It is the best of both worlds.


Mine did this for a while - classic and travel. He did go to both practices unless they conflicted (which did happen). Lots of kids do this because classic is more relaxed and fun. However you need to look at the rules for the age group - it isn't allowed until a certain age (e.g., MSI classic does not allow travel players to play on classic teams until a certain age). My DC did it in 7th grade, not sure he could have done it any earlier.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 18:41     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
And one more thing... Most kids on rec teams don't make every single practice, not for any good reason except their parents could not peal them off the couch and the coach has to play them.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 18:38     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I knew I would get haters on this thread. I doubt if you have ever been in this position, it happens all the time to middle school coaches. We encourage it at our school. The kids who are not that good get more attention. Many of the kids don't even want to be there, but their parents force them to be.

This is recreation soccer, the kids know their friend is at 2 practices a week for 2 hours and working his butt off, they don't care that he is not at "their" practice. This happens with tennis and instruments too. Sometimes a kid gets so good he need a better coach, period.

Also, imagine this, the kid learns stuff and teaches it to your kid. Happens all the time and it helps the other kids grow as players.




I disagree. I am a Rec Commissioner and if I knew that a player was doing this, I would tell them that it's not fair to the team and they need to attend practices or leave the league.


You should rethink that. I am also a commissioner. The "good" kids don't just go to practice, they practice on their own, they play with friends, they work on their game whenever they get a chance, their reward for all that work is being asked to leave, also, the recreational coaches are volunteers and appreciate having a kid like that being on their team.

They even ask him/her to show him what new drills he is learning,

For tennis, kids get to a point that a volunteer can not teach them anything any more. They get private lesson, oh let's kick them off the team.

You know that kid, at your schools band concert, the one with the piano solo, that one that plays the flute amazingly. She has a private tutor also and she/he misses band practice, and that is okay.

They are not showboating, they can actually pass the ball to that kid that is only their because their parents make them, and they might actually score thanks to that kid.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 17:14     Subject: "9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If he's getting paid a nice salary to travel, then by all means stick with it!!! If not, maybe you should just let him enjoy being a kid.


You obviously didn't read my OP.


I did read your post and responded appropriately.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 15:15     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:If he wants to play travel, I'd stick with it. He's going to get better coaching and there's a higher level of play in travel.

My (10 yo) kid plays rec, and the disparity in skills is huge. There's everything from beginner to could-be-playing-travel. And while the coaches do listen to kids preferences when playing them (e.g. my kid plays mostly defense) the coaches still rotate kids around & very few kids are getting position-specific coaching beyond "run to the ball!" or "protect the goal!" In travel, you're more likely to be getting position-specific coaching, and kids are going to be specializing in positions. Kids don't play the full game, they're rotated in and out so that each kid gets approximately the same amount of play. Your son would likely get to play a bit more than 1/2 the game in rec, but not much more (barring injuries and kids not showing up, which I'd guess would happen more commonly in rec than travel).

When I want my kid to be learning and improving, I want DC to be in the bottom half of the crowd. When it's something for fun, it doesn't matter. But you learn more being challenged. DC improves much more consistently when in the lower half of a training group than in the top half, ymmv.


OP here. This is very insightful, thank you.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 14:47     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I knew I would get haters on this thread. I doubt if you have ever been in this position, it happens all the time to middle school coaches. We encourage it at our school. The kids who are not that good get more attention. Many of the kids don't even want to be there, but their parents force them to be.

This is recreation soccer, the kids know their friend is at 2 practices a week for 2 hours and working his butt off, they don't care that he is not at "their" practice. This happens with tennis and instruments too. Sometimes a kid gets so good he need a better coach, period.

Also, imagine this, the kid learns stuff and teaches it to your kid. Happens all the time and it helps the other kids grow as players.




I disagree. I am a Rec Commissioner and if I knew that a player was doing this, I would tell them that it's not fair to the team and they need to attend practices or leave the league.


Totally agree! you are eitheron the team, or you're not. You don't get to come showboat at the games and take the spot of a kid who has been showing up at practices. No way would I allow this on the rec teams that I coach
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 14:44     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
I knew I would get haters on this thread. I doubt if you have ever been in this position, it happens all the time to middle school coaches. We encourage it at our school. The kids who are not that good get more attention. Many of the kids don't even want to be there, but their parents force them to be.

This is recreation soccer, the kids know their friend is at 2 practices a week for 2 hours and working his butt off, they don't care that he is not at "their" practice. This happens with tennis and instruments too. Sometimes a kid gets so good he need a better coach, period.

Also, imagine this, the kid learns stuff and teaches it to your kid. Happens all the time and it helps the other kids grow as players.




I disagree. I am a Rec Commissioner and if I knew that a player was doing this, I would tell them that it's not fair to the team and they need to attend practices or leave the league.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 14:23     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
If he wants to play travel, I'd stick with it. He's going to get better coaching and there's a higher level of play in travel.

My (10 yo) kid plays rec, and the disparity in skills is huge. There's everything from beginner to could-be-playing-travel. And while the coaches do listen to kids preferences when playing them (e.g. my kid plays mostly defense) the coaches still rotate kids around & very few kids are getting position-specific coaching beyond "run to the ball!" or "protect the goal!" In travel, you're more likely to be getting position-specific coaching, and kids are going to be specializing in positions. Kids don't play the full game, they're rotated in and out so that each kid gets approximately the same amount of play. Your son would likely get to play a bit more than 1/2 the game in rec, but not much more (barring injuries and kids not showing up, which I'd guess would happen more commonly in rec than travel).

When I want my kid to be learning and improving, I want DC to be in the bottom half of the crowd. When it's something for fun, it doesn't matter. But you learn more being challenged. DC improves much more consistently when in the lower half of a training group than in the top half, ymmv.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 13:51     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are going to hate my answer. BOTH. UGGGHHH!

Talk to the rec coach. Explain the situation. For his self confidence and for the fun of it he needs to play with his friends (I assume he has played with these kids a while). Games only or a practice here an there.

If he likes the sport he needs to get better and pay his dues. It is part of life.

Eventually the "being the best player" will wear on him, his team will lean too much on him to win the game and he will start to hate it. He won't actually get better so moving to travel will be harder.

He will eventually get more playing time with the travel team, he will enjoy it more, etc.

My son plays on a travel team and with the same kids since kindergarten. It is the best of both worlds.


It's obnoxious, even if allowed, for a kid to show up for rec games but not the rec practices.


+1, absolutely obnoxious.


I knew I would get haters on this thread. I doubt if you have ever been in this position, it happens all the time to middle school coaches. We encourage it at our school. The kids who are not that good get more attention. Many of the kids don't even want to be there, but their parents force them to be.

This is recreation soccer, the kids know their friend is at 2 practices a week for 2 hours and working his butt off, they don't care that he is not at "their" practice. This happens with tennis and instruments too. Sometimes a kid gets so good he need a better coach, period.

Also, imagine this, the kid learns stuff and teaches it to your kid. Happens all the time and it helps the other kids grow as players.


Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 13:44     Subject: "9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
At 9-11 the gap between rec and travel becomes huge, especially in soccer, because skill, coordination and movement that are not found in other sports are required. There will be some athletic freaks and late bloomers, but these are by far the exceptions. A hs coach will undoubtedly take the best players, regardless of where they play, but in this area I would be surprised to see a rec player on a hs team, especially one that makes it onto the field.

If there is as big a disparity in playing time as you infer (if your son gets less than half while others get a full match) then you need to look for a new team because your coach may not doing what is appropriate for that age. Look for one that emphasizes footskill and allows boys to play multiple positions. They should be focused more on making players better than just winning that weekend's game.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 13:32     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are going to hate my answer. BOTH. UGGGHHH!

Talk to the rec coach. Explain the situation. For his self confidence and for the fun of it he needs to play with his friends (I assume he has played with these kids a while). Games only or a practice here an there.

If he likes the sport he needs to get better and pay his dues. It is part of life.

Eventually the "being the best player" will wear on him, his team will lean too much on him to win the game and he will start to hate it. He won't actually get better so moving to travel will be harder.

He will eventually get more playing time with the travel team, he will enjoy it more, etc.

My son plays on a travel team and with the same kids since kindergarten. It is the best of both worlds.


It's obnoxious, even if allowed, for a kid to show up for rec games but not the rec practices.


+1, absolutely obnoxious.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 13:01     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
Anonymous wrote:You are going to hate my answer. BOTH. UGGGHHH!

Talk to the rec coach. Explain the situation. For his self confidence and for the fun of it he needs to play with his friends (I assume he has played with these kids a while). Games only or a practice here an there.

If he likes the sport he needs to get better and pay his dues. It is part of life.

Eventually the "being the best player" will wear on him, his team will lean too much on him to win the game and he will start to hate it. He won't actually get better so moving to travel will be harder.

He will eventually get more playing time with the travel team, he will enjoy it more, etc.

My son plays on a travel team and with the same kids since kindergarten. It is the best of both worlds.


It's obnoxious, even if allowed, for a kid to show up for rec games but not the rec practices.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2013 13:00     Subject: Re:"9th man" on travel or starter in rec league?
From a skill development perspective stick with travel. Kids can pick up bad habits in rec. if you are talking about soccer you should also consider that there are some who think the American system puts too much emphasis on games, not enough on practice. So maybe not playing the whole game is good.