"Removal" is what firing is called in the federal government.

There is removal for performance and removal for conduct. Remo

Each has different standards and procedures. Removal for performance requires a lengthy process and is more difficult because the employee has to have had documented unsatisfactory performance appraisals and a Performance Improvement Plan that he/she failed.

Removal for conduct requires a removable offense (something serious), usually a record of progressive discipline unless the offense is extremely serious, plus a proposal to remove and a decision to remove, and the opportunity respond to the proposal. This process takes time, at least 45 days.

With each of these processes, the removed employee has the right to appeal.

Not every Agency has a table of penalties. Ours does not.

Often the charge for conduct is generic like "Conduct Unbecoming a Federal Employee" so you are not going to see something online, OP.

Google Merit Systems Protection Board and look at their cases.

Leaving a zip locked bag of raw, linked sausage (Kielbasa) in your bottom file drawer for several weeks.

Someone in my agency was fired for doing a second job on the job. People can easily be fired for Hatch Act violations.

I am the PP with the porn watcher who was promoted. We had a supervisor get into a fistfight with a subordinate, and the subordinate was re-assigned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been at my agency for almost 10 years. In that time, I've never heard of anyone getting fired. Not the senile lady, not the major drug addict who did nothing but make incomprehensible statements to everyone at work, not the man who pretty much never showed up but submitted leave, not the alcoholics who sleep at their desks all day, not the people who supervisors have stated literally won't do work if asked, not the man found guilty of sexual harassment. I have known people to be transferred to another office, but I have never heard of anyone being fired.

should be, "but never submitted leave."

the problem, then, is with the managers, not the system in which they operate... if they do their jobs, those are all potential firing offenses (the alcoholic may fall under the Rehabilitation Act and be a more complicated case).

Yeah, but the alcoholic has to ask for accommodations. And, the only accommodation he is entitled to is time off to seek treatment and recovery.

Anonymous wrote:

It is not hard to fire a federal employee if the Agency wants to do it. Managers just then to be wussies when it comes to giving accurate performance evaluations.

Almost impossible. Even after documenting, and more documenting, and more documenting.

You'Re doing something wrong!

Anonymous wrote:

It is not hard to fire a federal employee if the Agency wants to do it. Managers just then to be wussies when it comes to giving accurate performance evaluations.

Almost impossible. Even after documenting, and more documenting, and more documenting.

I don't agree I worked plenty of MSPB cases where people were terminated. The terminations were upheld. I have also trained managers to document and counsel.

Anonymous wrote:20:33/36 &c. here ...

Performance-based actions (after PIPs, etc.), are harder to do than conduct-based (violence, AWOL, leave abuse, etc.), but they can all be done and made to stick....

I spent more than 10 yrs. of my career as a manager overseeing these issues in my office. They were not overused but they were used when appropriate and not a single one was challenged successfully. You have to know the law, managers have to do their jobs (document), and work with HR and legal counsel and if you do, a righteous case can succeed.

OTOH we had cases where managers with bad judgment went overboard in overcharging, etc., (the opposite of tolerating too much) and those cases blew up in their faces (as they should have).

What is this?

Anonymous wrote:I know three people who were fired after they failed to meet their PIPs.

My agency uses PIPs and budget cuts to get rid of bad apples, but there a few bad apples who are untouchable because they know where the bodies are buried.

20:33/36 &c. here ...

Performance-based actions (after PIPs, etc.), are harder to do than conduct-based (violence, AWOL, leave abuse, etc.), but they can all be done and made to stick....

I spent more than 10 yrs. of my career as a manager overseeing these issues in my office. They were not overused but they were used when appropriate and not a single one was challenged successfully. You have to know the law, managers have to do their jobs (document), and work with HR and legal counsel and if you do, a righteous case can succeed.

OTOH we had cases where managers with bad judgment went overboard in overcharging, etc., (the opposite of tolerating too much) and those cases blew up in their faces (as they should have).

A friend of mine works at an agency with production requirements. If you piss off the wrong people, suddenly you are unable to make production. They document the inability to meet requirements and then fire.

I know three people who were fired after they failed to meet their PIPs.

A woman at my job shoved a subordinate. She was given the choice of resigning or having proceedings initiated to remove her from service. She resigned.
An individual at my husband's agency was removed from service for punching a coworker during an argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been at my agency for almost 10 years. In that time, I've never heard of anyone getting fired. Not the senile lady, not the major drug addict who did nothing but make incomprehensible statements to everyone at work, not the man who pretty much never showed up but submitted leave, not the alcoholics who sleep at their desks all day, not the people who supervisors have stated literally won't do work if asked, not the man found guilty of sexual harassment. I have known people to be transferred to another office, but I have never heard of anyone being fired.

should be, "but never submitted leave."

the problem, then, is with the managers, not the system in which they operate... if they do their jobs, those are all potential firing offenses (the alcoholic may fall under the Rehabilitation Act and be a more complicated case).

Anonymous wrote:I've been at my agency for almost 10 years. In that time, I've never heard of anyone getting fired. Not the senile lady, not the major drug addict who did nothing but make incomprehensible statements to everyone at work, not the man who pretty much never showed up but submitted leave, not the alcoholics who sleep at their desks all day, not the people who supervisors have stated literally won't do work if asked, not the man found guilty of sexual harassment. I have known people to be transferred to another office, but I have never heard of anyone being fired.

should be, "but never submitted leave."