Anonymous
09/01/2013 00:46
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Get out of the online shopping habit -- it's too easy to mindlessly order stuff you don't need.
I also agree with postponing. If you're sitting at home and think you need something, don't rush to the store asap -- chances are the urge will pass or by the time you go, you'll forget about it. If I'm already at the store and see something I ke, sometimes I'll say to myself that I can't decide and will think about it and come back -- 95% of the time I never make it back there to grab whatever it is, and sometimes if I do, it's not there anymore/sold out etc.
Personally I also stay out of places like target, where it is impossible to walk out without buying some unneeded item.
Get used to buying food on sale. I realize you eat expensive food, but certain packaged goods (pasta and the like) do go on sale. When they are on sale, buy them whether you need them or not; often the sale prices for something like pasta come out to 50 cents/box. So you stock up and never again pay $2.50 a box when you need it. Same thing for cereal, cookies etc. Seems like small potatoes, but when you save $2-5 dollars per shopping trip, it will add up over time.
Like the PP, I also think about savings over a long period of time. Sure getting a Starbucks coffee only costs $3 however when that habit becomes 4 days a week, that's $12/week -- still manageable but over a month that is almost $50 and over a year that is $600; I'm sure you have better uses for $50 or $600 than coffee. I apply this thinking for recurring purchases and it has actually helped me kick the starbucks habit myself and save about $100-150 this summer.
I also agree with postponing. If you're sitting at home and think you need something, don't rush to the store asap -- chances are the urge will pass or by the time you go, you'll forget about it. If I'm already at the store and see something I ke, sometimes I'll say to myself that I can't decide and will think about it and come back -- 95% of the time I never make it back there to grab whatever it is, and sometimes if I do, it's not there anymore/sold out etc.
Personally I also stay out of places like target, where it is impossible to walk out without buying some unneeded item.
Get used to buying food on sale. I realize you eat expensive food, but certain packaged goods (pasta and the like) do go on sale. When they are on sale, buy them whether you need them or not; often the sale prices for something like pasta come out to 50 cents/box. So you stock up and never again pay $2.50 a box when you need it. Same thing for cereal, cookies etc. Seems like small potatoes, but when you save $2-5 dollars per shopping trip, it will add up over time.
Like the PP, I also think about savings over a long period of time. Sure getting a Starbucks coffee only costs $3 however when that habit becomes 4 days a week, that's $12/week -- still manageable but over a month that is almost $50 and over a year that is $600; I'm sure you have better uses for $50 or $600 than coffee. I apply this thinking for recurring purchases and it has actually helped me kick the starbucks habit myself and save about $100-150 this summer.
Anonymous
08/31/2013 20:30
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Dave Ramsey. It really helps put things in perspective. Then set a goal - "stopping spending" doesn't sound fun, but "saving for X" can be far more motivating. Hth!
Anonymous
08/30/2013 22:52
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Get a job.
I swear I am not being snarky. There are onu two choices in your situation - cut back expenses or increase income. You are saying you can't find anywhere to cut back so you need to bring in more income.
I swear I am not being snarky. There are onu two choices in your situation - cut back expenses or increase income. You are saying you can't find anywhere to cut back so you need to bring in more income.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 15:57
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You need to stop shopping for fun. You can't pick up clothes the kids don't need if you don't go near a store or click on a link.
Find other things to do for fun.
That's the thing -- I really don't shop for fun. I have very little time to shop because I have 3 kids, no local family, SAH, and hate taking my kids to stores. Not that I never make an impulse purchase, but those are not our primary problem. As I've been reflecting on our budget the past few days, I can acknowledge a few things:
(1) we eat relatively expensive food, meaning that a large chunk of our grocery bill is fresh produce, dairy and some meat. since this is important to our health, I'm not inclined to cut back much in this area since as I said, we use what we buy (PP's skepticism notwithstanding) and we buy it as cheaply as possible;
(2) we have not been budgeting for intermittent/unpredictable expenses such as car repairs, birthday parties, medical care (like the $200 emergency room copay from yesterday ...), property tax, etc. I like that YNAB forces you to acknowledge these expenses and plan for them, and I'm working on how to do that given our limited income;
(3) our main problem is large purchases that are not in the budget, e.g. travel to see family. we went on a long road trip to see my in-laws this summer and I was blown away at how fast all the gas, hotels, and eating out added up. I honestly don't know how we will manage it next year. This is not something that we are "allowed" to decline to do because it is so important to my in-laws but it is a huge money suck. (I actually posted a thread about it a month or two ago because I know how much we end up spending and it stresses me out beyond belief). I also felt pressure to put the kids in swimming lessons and that was damned expensive too. This is a good example of where I need mental discipline -- everyone else I know has their child in swimming lessons in the summer. Because I felt guilty that my kids don't know how to swim, I was able to suspend disbelief about our finances long enough to sign them up (we didn't go into debt for the lessons, but we did spend out of savings). It's hard -- they did get a lot out of the lessons, and they do need to know how to swim for safety reasons -- but we just cannot afford this type of expense.
In a related sense, I would say that the vast majority of our direct peers are in a much better financial situation than we are. I decline SO many activities in my social circle, mostly kid related but some just for moms, because of money. (Posted a thread about that too actually...) We are on the path to being better off financially, but it is a long road (massive student loans to pay off) and we will be on a tight budget for many years. It is hard to not be able to afford to do things that all your peers are doing. Sometimes I manage to justify things to myself, like the swimming lessons. I need to lose the ability to do that. So that was my question. It really has nothing to do with apps or knowledge of where your money goes -- I have all that.
Perhaps you could benefit by becoming more familiar with a minimalist mindset. We are fortunate to have a comfortable bank account, but we have a minimalist mindset, not extreme but one nonetheless. I prefer to stay away from stores for the inconvenience of driving, parking, taking kids, waiting in line, etc. Amazon Prime is my friend. I don't have many clothes or shoes but what I have is excellent quality and lasts for years. I often buy use wherever I can get it, for good quality things (ex, my DD loves American Girl Dolls, I usually get her one in EUC, she never knows the difference). My kids are not in activities, they have playdate though all the time. Just a few examples.
We spend significantly on food and travel, but if we can tie in a trip to visiting family we do it (finally took the kids to see their aunt in Orlando, which meant a free place to stay, some free meals, and a visit to se Mickey). We also play it forward, we host tons of people who are on vacation at our house for free, offer gently used toys and clothes for freeto friends and family, etc.
The Minimalist Mom and the Frugal Mama are two of my favorite websites that follow this approach. Perhaps they would be of interest to you.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 13:38
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You need to stop shopping for fun. You can't pick up clothes the kids don't need if you don't go near a store or click on a link.
Find other things to do for fun.
That's the thing -- I really don't shop for fun. I have very little time to shop because I have 3 kids, no local family, SAH, and hate taking my kids to stores. Not that I never make an impulse purchase, but those are not our primary problem. As I've been reflecting on our budget the past few days, I can acknowledge a few things:
(1) we eat relatively expensive food, meaning that a large chunk of our grocery bill is fresh produce, dairy and some meat. since this is important to our health, I'm not inclined to cut back much in this area since as I said, we use what we buy (PP's skepticism notwithstanding) and we buy it as cheaply as possible;
(2) we have not been budgeting for intermittent/unpredictable expenses such as car repairs, birthday parties, medical care (like the $200 emergency room copay from yesterday ...), property tax, etc. I like that YNAB forces you to acknowledge these expenses and plan for them, and I'm working on how to do that given our limited income;
(3) our main problem is large purchases that are not in the budget, e.g. travel to see family. we went on a long road trip to see my in-laws this summer and I was blown away at how fast all the gas, hotels, and eating out added up. I honestly don't know how we will manage it next year. This is not something that we are "allowed" to decline to do because it is so important to my in-laws but it is a huge money suck. (I actually posted a thread about it a month or two ago because I know how much we end up spending and it stresses me out beyond belief). I also felt pressure to put the kids in swimming lessons and that was damned expensive too. This is a good example of where I need mental discipline -- everyone else I know has their child in swimming lessons in the summer. Because I felt guilty that my kids don't know how to swim, I was able to suspend disbelief about our finances long enough to sign them up (we didn't go into debt for the lessons, but we did spend out of savings). It's hard -- they did get a lot out of the lessons, and they do need to know how to swim for safety reasons -- but we just cannot afford this type of expense.
In a related sense, I would say that the vast majority of our direct peers are in a much better financial situation than we are. I decline SO many activities in my social circle, mostly kid related but some just for moms, because of money. (Posted a thread about that too actually...) We are on the path to being better off financially, but it is a long road (massive student loans to pay off) and we will be on a tight budget for many years. It is hard to not be able to afford to do things that all your peers are doing. Sometimes I manage to justify things to myself, like the swimming lessons. I need to lose the ability to do that. So that was my question. It really has nothing to do with apps or knowledge of where your money goes -- I have all that.
OP, I have a bit of a hard time sympathizing with your situation, but will try to be constructive.
1. I think it's great that you want to eat fresh food. I don't think you should cut that expense at all. Are you planning your meals? Are you buying all your produce at Whole Foods or farmer's markets? Are you getting all organic everything? That adds up. For the staples, take advantage of sales and store brands. Don't buy the name brand thing if the store brand thing is on sale. I literally saved $30 at Harris Teeter less than a week ago doing this. Make everything from scratch. Buy things with multiple uses.
2. Things like car repair and emergency room copays are EMERGENCIES. Those things are why emergency funds exist. They're not really expenses you can plan for short of having a robust emergency account. I would not worry about those. When it comes to birthday parties, that is one area where you just have to make sacrifices. If you cannot afford to have a $500 party at a venue with activities for everyone, then you can't afford to do that. It sucks, but that's just the way it goes.
3. As for trips to see family, I know it's hard, but at this point, you just can't take trips you can't afford, period. If your parents are like, "Come see us!" the answer simply has to be, "Mom, I'd love to but unfortunately we just can't afford it right now. Maybe later this year." Plan these visits very far in advance and plan everything you can. As for things like extracurricular activities, I know it's hard when you/your kids are not able to do the things their peers do. Trust me. I am a single mom living in DC with one child on $70,000 a year. There are no swimming lessons or extravagant birthday parties for us. A super extravagant Saturday is when we go to a movie and have lunch after. My daughter isn't in swim lessons, dance lessons, piano lessons, etc. It's just not possible. Later, it will be harder, I'm sure. But basically, you need to stop pretending you're rich. You're not. Maybe you need to try making friends with people who are in the socioeconomic class as you, rather than people who are a couple rungs above.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 13:26
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Anonymous wrote:
(1) we eat relatively expensive food, meaning that a large chunk of our grocery bill is fresh produce, dairy and some meat. since this is important to our health, I'm not inclined to cut back much in this area since as I said, we use what we buy (PP's skepticism notwithstanding) and we buy it as cheaply as possible;
Good quality food is an emotional need for my husband. Some people can live off of rice and beans and be fine, he'd lose his mind. I understand you protecting this category. It sounds like you already have the "easy stuff" here handled - you're using what you're buying, and you know what you're buying. Buy in bulk when you can & when that decreases costs, we do this a lot for spices since my husband loves cooking with them but if you buy the little containers from the grocery store those aren't the freshest and the costs increase quickly!
Anonymous wrote:
(2) we have not been budgeting for intermittent/unpredictable expenses such as car repairs, birthday parties, medical care (like the $200 emergency room copay from yesterday ...), property tax, etc. I like that YNAB forces you to acknowledge these expenses and plan for them, and I'm working on how to do that given our limited income;
You might want to go to your library and check out some of the Dave Ramsey books. IIRC, he has some sample budgets listed in them & you could probably work from there. Some people make a simple spread sheet, some people use envelopes, some people take advantage of tools like mint.com. Don't forget to add "Child extra curriculars" as a category, and include the extras. The "cheap" $50 soccer fee is quickly followed by the cleats & shin guard cost, lost water bottles, and so on.
Anonymous wrote:
(3) our main problem is large purchases that are not in the budget, e.g. travel to see family. we went on a long road trip to see my in-laws this summer and I was blown away at how fast all the gas, hotels, and eating out added up. I honestly don't know how we will manage it next year. This is not something that we are "allowed" to decline to do because it is so important to my in-laws but it is a huge money suck. (I actually posted a thread about it a month or two ago because I know how much we end up spending and it stresses me out beyond belief). I also felt pressure to put the kids in swimming lessons and that was damned expensive too. This is a good example of where I need mental discipline -- everyone else I know has their child in swimming lessons in the summer. Because I felt guilty that my kids don't know how to swim, I was able to suspend disbelief about our finances long enough to sign them up (we didn't go into debt for the lessons, but we did spend out of savings). It's hard -- they did get a lot out of the lessons, and they do need to know how to swim for safety reasons -- but we just cannot afford this type of expense.
When I was a kid, we packed food and camped. We never stayed in hotels and rarely saw the inside of a restaurant. It can significantly decrease costs of traveling to see family. You might end up with the following decision: If we camp and pack food, we can visit family every year; if we use hotels and restaurants, we can visit family every other year. It's just reality. If you can't do the camping/packed food, then the inlaws can foot the bill for the travel, or come see you, or cope. If they aren't willing to foot the bill or come see you it can't be all that important to them. And if you aren't willing to camp/pack food to see them, you're indicating how you prioritize them. It's not meant to be mean or anything - I would visit my in laws every other year rather than camp on the trip to see them! And I do like my in laws. I just hate camping more than I like my in laws.
A big help would probably also be to find a peer group that makes a similar amount of money or more importantly, prioritizes money in a similar way to you. Hanging around with people who spend a lot is contagious, and it does make you feel left out.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 13:12
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Very difficult. This is a almost universal human problem according to some economists - the inability to reduce consumption spending (this excludes spending on what is needed for survival). See Greece.
My only suggestion is to start shopping at thrift stores and second hand shops for clothes etc.
Those apps that cost money to help you save look like a scam by the way. Especially when they 'go on sale'.
My only suggestion is to start shopping at thrift stores and second hand shops for clothes etc.
Those apps that cost money to help you save look like a scam by the way. Especially when they 'go on sale'.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 13:02
Subject: Re:Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Anonymous wrote:Some good tips,PP.
To throw in one thing that helps me is to get off all the mailing lists for Pottery Barn, Hannah Anderson, Gap, etc. I always feel like I can't resist a 20% off sale even if I don't need anything. If I don't know about it, I don't think about that sweater or pair of pants that we don't have. I also had to wean myself from checking Gilt, Ruelala, Joss and Main, etc. Every time I look at those there is something irresistable that I need.
I need to do this.
OP, I understand what you mean about comparing yourself with your peers. I have the same problem. I know that my friends all make more money and have less debt, but that doesn't stop me from thinking that I need to have all the things they have. And now we've dug ourselves into a hole with credit.
One of the things I'm thinking about doing is being more organized with our food budget. Buying things that are on big sale (3 lb pack of chicken thighs, for example) and saving it for future meals. Cooking one piece of meat that can make 2 meals.
I'm at the point that I'm going to try my grandmother's method of budgeting: the envelope system, where the cash for each item in the budget is put into envelopes and when the cash is gone, that's it for the month.
Good luck to you, OP. DH and I both came from poor families and now that we make good money, we tend to feel like we "deserve" the things we want to buy. That's the mentality we need to fix.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 12:45
Subject: Re:Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Some good tips,PP.
To throw in one thing that helps me is to get off all the mailing lists for Pottery Barn, Hannah Anderson, Gap, etc. I always feel like I can't resist a 20% off sale even if I don't need anything. If I don't know about it, I don't think about that sweater or pair of pants that we don't have. I also had to wean myself from checking Gilt, Ruelala, Joss and Main, etc. Every time I look at those there is something irresistable that I need.
To throw in one thing that helps me is to get off all the mailing lists for Pottery Barn, Hannah Anderson, Gap, etc. I always feel like I can't resist a 20% off sale even if I don't need anything. If I don't know about it, I don't think about that sweater or pair of pants that we don't have. I also had to wean myself from checking Gilt, Ruelala, Joss and Main, etc. Every time I look at those there is something irresistable that I need.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 12:01
Subject: Re:Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Anonymous wrote:I second postponing.
I also suggest staying out of stores as much as possible.
If you think you need something, but it's not urgent (e.g. a new pair of pants for the kid when he already has 3, but sometimes that makes laundry tight), write it down on a list. When you have your scheduled trip to buy clothes (once every other month?) you'll have a list to work from, and you may have learned during those 4 weeks of having only 3 pairs of pants that you don't need that fourth pair. Or alternate shopping at Standard Clothes Store with going to the thrift shop. You won't find all the clothes you need at the thrift shop, but you'll find some of them.
As for things you want, like organizational tools for the house, make a list. Prioritize the list. Include prices for what's on the list. Tell yourself you can buy the new coat rack when you've put an amount equal to the new coat rack in savings. Sure, doing without is frustrating, but so is feeling like you're living on the edge. If for every "want" you have to set aside double what it costs (an amount equal to its cost in savings + what it costs to buy it) you'll gradually be improving your living situation AND improving your financial situation. I also find when I write down all my wants in front of me, I can tend to get rid of several of them.
Only buy from your lists. If you're out at Target and you suddenly realize you "need" another pair of shorts, it can wait (unless the pair you're wearing JUST split and that's why you realized you need them). It is too easy to justify needing things when you're in those stores. Shopping from lists helps give you time to think over whether you really need it, and also helps eliminate those impulse purchases.
These are helpful -- thank you!
Anonymous
08/30/2013 12:00
Subject: Re:Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Oh, and re the tax refunds, we won't be getting one anymore. The only reason we got one in the past is because I did project-based work rather than being on a salary, so our income was highly variable and we erred on the side of overwithholding because it was preferable to the alternative. Last year DH's employer overwithheld from his bonus, which was not in our control. But I'm not against tax refunds as a matter of principle like most economist types are.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 11:54
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Anonymous wrote:You need to stop shopping for fun. You can't pick up clothes the kids don't need if you don't go near a store or click on a link.
Find other things to do for fun.
That's the thing -- I really don't shop for fun. I have very little time to shop because I have 3 kids, no local family, SAH, and hate taking my kids to stores. Not that I never make an impulse purchase, but those are not our primary problem. As I've been reflecting on our budget the past few days, I can acknowledge a few things:
(1) we eat relatively expensive food, meaning that a large chunk of our grocery bill is fresh produce, dairy and some meat. since this is important to our health, I'm not inclined to cut back much in this area since as I said, we use what we buy (PP's skepticism notwithstanding) and we buy it as cheaply as possible;
(2) we have not been budgeting for intermittent/unpredictable expenses such as car repairs, birthday parties, medical care (like the $200 emergency room copay from yesterday ...), property tax, etc. I like that YNAB forces you to acknowledge these expenses and plan for them, and I'm working on how to do that given our limited income;
(3) our main problem is large purchases that are not in the budget, e.g. travel to see family. we went on a long road trip to see my in-laws this summer and I was blown away at how fast all the gas, hotels, and eating out added up. I honestly don't know how we will manage it next year. This is not something that we are "allowed" to decline to do because it is so important to my in-laws but it is a huge money suck. (I actually posted a thread about it a month or two ago because I know how much we end up spending and it stresses me out beyond belief). I also felt pressure to put the kids in swimming lessons and that was damned expensive too. This is a good example of where I need mental discipline -- everyone else I know has their child in swimming lessons in the summer. Because I felt guilty that my kids don't know how to swim, I was able to suspend disbelief about our finances long enough to sign them up (we didn't go into debt for the lessons, but we did spend out of savings). It's hard -- they did get a lot out of the lessons, and they do need to know how to swim for safety reasons -- but we just cannot afford this type of expense.
In a related sense, I would say that the vast majority of our direct peers are in a much better financial situation than we are. I decline SO many activities in my social circle, mostly kid related but some just for moms, because of money. (Posted a thread about that too actually...) We are on the path to being better off financially, but it is a long road (massive student loans to pay off) and we will be on a tight budget for many years. It is hard to not be able to afford to do things that all your peers are doing. Sometimes I manage to justify things to myself, like the swimming lessons. I need to lose the ability to do that. So that was my question. It really has nothing to do with apps or knowledge of where your money goes -- I have all that.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 11:33
Subject: Re:Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
I second postponing.
I also suggest staying out of stores as much as possible.
If you think you need something, but it's not urgent (e.g. a new pair of pants for the kid when he already has 3, but sometimes that makes laundry tight), write it down on a list. When you have your scheduled trip to buy clothes (once every other month?) you'll have a list to work from, and you may have learned during those 4 weeks of having only 3 pairs of pants that you don't need that fourth pair. Or alternate shopping at Standard Clothes Store with going to the thrift shop. You won't find all the clothes you need at the thrift shop, but you'll find some of them.
As for things you want, like organizational tools for the house, make a list. Prioritize the list. Include prices for what's on the list. Tell yourself you can buy the new coat rack when you've put an amount equal to the new coat rack in savings. Sure, doing without is frustrating, but so is feeling like you're living on the edge. If for every "want" you have to set aside double what it costs (an amount equal to its cost in savings + what it costs to buy it) you'll gradually be improving your living situation AND improving your financial situation. I also find when I write down all my wants in front of me, I can tend to get rid of several of them.
Only buy from your lists. If you're out at Target and you suddenly realize you "need" another pair of shorts, it can wait (unless the pair you're wearing JUST split and that's why you realized you need them). It is too easy to justify needing things when you're in those stores. Shopping from lists helps give you time to think over whether you really need it, and also helps eliminate those impulse purchases.
I also suggest staying out of stores as much as possible.
If you think you need something, but it's not urgent (e.g. a new pair of pants for the kid when he already has 3, but sometimes that makes laundry tight), write it down on a list. When you have your scheduled trip to buy clothes (once every other month?) you'll have a list to work from, and you may have learned during those 4 weeks of having only 3 pairs of pants that you don't need that fourth pair. Or alternate shopping at Standard Clothes Store with going to the thrift shop. You won't find all the clothes you need at the thrift shop, but you'll find some of them.
As for things you want, like organizational tools for the house, make a list. Prioritize the list. Include prices for what's on the list. Tell yourself you can buy the new coat rack when you've put an amount equal to the new coat rack in savings. Sure, doing without is frustrating, but so is feeling like you're living on the edge. If for every "want" you have to set aside double what it costs (an amount equal to its cost in savings + what it costs to buy it) you'll gradually be improving your living situation AND improving your financial situation. I also find when I write down all my wants in front of me, I can tend to get rid of several of them.
Only buy from your lists. If you're out at Target and you suddenly realize you "need" another pair of shorts, it can wait (unless the pair you're wearing JUST split and that's why you realized you need them). It is too easy to justify needing things when you're in those stores. Shopping from lists helps give you time to think over whether you really need it, and also helps eliminate those impulse purchases.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 11:25
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
If you think you need something or need to shop, postpone it. Often the urge passes and you realize you don't need it. Tell yourself it's too inconvenient to shop for that right now. Traffic, schedule, something else you should do instead. The more you postpone the more likely you will forego.
Anonymous
08/30/2013 11:23
Subject: Developing the discipline to stop spending -- I need tips
Automatically send savings to a different account that has no ATM card or check book.
Tune out commercials (skip the TV), ads in magazines (drop them), etc.
When you go to a store, esp. Target or the like, go with a LIST and only buy what's on the list, not the cute do-dad that you see.
Tune out commercials (skip the TV), ads in magazines (drop them), etc.
When you go to a store, esp. Target or the like, go with a LIST and only buy what's on the list, not the cute do-dad that you see.