Anonymous wrote:I am Catholic but not a practicing Catholic. Very serious with a Jewish man. He wants to get engaged but religion is a dividing factor, he has asked me to convert which is out of the question. He says its not him but his parents. I for much the same reasons would not do that though I do not practice my religion. It would kill my mother and it is not a consideration. Any input? We are at a standstill right now. He has said he still wants to go forward and that our families will need to accept things as they are but I am afraid it will come up later when we start a family.

Red flag.

Red flag.

Yes.
...

Do not move forward without resolving this. It gets harder, much harder as life goes by and your parents die and major life events happen and you have children.

I was a non-practicing Catholic when I married my Jewish DH and like you, we had not decided on anything re: religion when we married. Shortly after we married, my dad died, then I got pregnant. Suddenly a religious community was very, very important to me as were my (Catholic) roots and connections.

In the end we decided that I would raise our children in the RCC, which I have done (with DH's support but not participation). But it has not been easy - the ILs are not happy about it. And it can be lonely, not having a DH as part of my church community.

Think long and hard about this.

P.S. You could consider the UU church, Ethical Culture Society, or IFFP (http://www.iffp.net/). None of those would work for me because my religious observance is as much about culture and heritage as it is about faith and practice. But your mileage may vary.

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of incorrect information here. There are many nuances to these faiths and how you and your families deal with things. I personally believe a relationship can survive if the parties have different faiths or politics but not both. You definitely need to discuss everything. Including children, where you will worship, how you will include or not the others family.

On a personal note I will say that I converted to judaism and could not be happier. We are reform by the way which does not require the mother to be Jewish or the child to be Jewish. You will find incredible similarities between the faiths which are both of the Abrahamric lineage as is Islam. The mikveh is just like a bris, the responsive prayers, the standing for certain parts of the service all feel very familiar to me and I am quite comfortable. I gave up Easter and Christmas completely. My family was fully accepting. We do the Jewish holidays with my husbands family and thanksgiving with my family. On Christmas we go out for Chinese and a movie with the rest of the Jews. I love not having to go consumer crazy at Christmas. We don't exchange Chanukah gifts so the Christmas shopping maddness doesn't plague us. Iam very content raising my children in one faith and disagree with the notion of educating them in both faiths to let them decide.

Good luck.

Did you stop celebrating Christmas with your parents and siblings as well?

If you love your religion more than your partner, it's never going to work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here me converting is absolutely out of the question just not happening for many many reasons. I will not raise my kids Jewish. We got into a big argument yesterday mostly because we both feel pressured from the families and now even between us because we both want kids but know that they need to have an identity.

The sad thing is he is fine raising them Catholic but is nervous about his parents. So this is where we are. We are actually going to see someone tomorrow night who specializes in this very thing. To be continued.

You both need to decide this for yourselves without consideration of what your parents want. Grow up and live your own lives. The parents will accept it and if not, they are close-minded people.

Actually what each of your parents think is important if it is important to you. OP, you don't sound flexible and neither does your fiance/BF/whatever. Honestly, if you can't work this out now, please consider breaking it off.

These things usually work only if one or both parties don't care about their religion. In your case, you both do, so I spell trouble. I hope you can work it out with an appropriate counselor, but if you can't please be realistic and move on before there are kids in the picture.

Anonymous wrote:OP here me converting is absolutely out of the question just not happening for many many reasons. I will not raise my kids Jewish. We got into a big argument yesterday mostly because we both feel pressured from the families and now even between us because we both want kids but know that they need to have an identity.

The sad thing is he is fine raising them Catholic but is nervous about his parents. So this is where we are. We are actually going to see someone tomorrow night who specializes in this very thing. To be continued.

You both need to decide this for yourselves without consideration of what your parents want. Grow up and live your own lives. The parents will accept it and if not, they are close-minded people.

I suggest you talk to an "open minded" member of the clergy in both of your religions to see how other couples have handled it and what thing come up later that are real problems. You can talk to a UU minister too, they usually have quite a bit of experience with couples who are of different faiths. Many of the couples in my UU Congregation are of two different faiths and they have figured out a way to raise their children together. Some keep the faith at home with different religious observances and rituals, others take turns going to each others house of worship... Eventually, some start going only to one. It really depends on your and your partners faith, feelings and practices (and sometimes extended family issues)

The ones who are more strict and have hard and fast rules about their faith tend to have the most problems combining.

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you will need to make a strong united stand to your families and tell them IF you are both in agreement that the kids will be raised Catholic that's the way it is and they can choose to accept it or not. You need to do whats best for you and your husband and future kids. They love you and i am sure both families will eventually come around.

I wouldn't count on that. If people have faith, usually that comes before all else.

Sounds like you will need to make a strong united stand to your families and tell them IF you are both in agreement that the kids will be raised Catholic that's the way it is and they can choose to accept it or not. You need to do whats best for you and your husband and future kids. They love you and i am sure both families will eventually come around.

OP here me converting is absolutely out of the question just not happening for many many reasons. I will not raise my kids Jewish. We got into a big argument yesterday mostly because we both feel pressured from the families and now even between us because we both want kids but know that they need to have an identity.

The sad thing is he is fine raising them Catholic but is nervous about his parents. So this is where we are. We are actually going to see someone tomorrow night who specializes in this very thing. To be continued.

further correction to PP about treatment of Jewish fathers and their children: The law of return to Israel treats as Jews for purposes of immigration to Israel anyone with a Jewish grandparent or parent on either mother or father's side. So actually these children would be treated as Jews for purposes of moving to Israel (in the unlikely event that they would want to do so). I should also add that if they wanted to raise the children Jewish and avoid the problem of them being considered Jewish, it is actually very easy to "convert" a child to Judaism for purposes of conservative practice with a trip to the mikveh. We did for both of our children (I was not Jewish when they were born) so that they would not have an issue in the future with being considered Jewish in conservative circles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You two need to figure this out now. Before the relationship goes any further. Judiasm follows the matriarch. That means unless you convert prior to giving birth, your children will not be jewish by birth.

This is one of those issues that is a deal breaker in a marriage. And compromise on this issue is not easy.

Just as a point of clarification, Reform Judiasm considers children of Jewish fathers to be Jewish as well. There are no conversion requirements for non-Jewish wives.

Reform does, yes, but Conservative and Orthodox don't, and neither does the state of Israel -- should your kids ever wish to move there. (Can't imagine they would but you never know.) I don't think OP said which denomination her boyfriend belonged to.

Anyway, it's more than just this. It's not just traditions, as another PP said. Many of the traditions are fundamentally incompatible -- for example, baptism and anything Jewish. You can't be Jewish and yet be baptized. Doesn't work. Also, if you have a boy, he will need to be circumcised, and many non-Jews don't believe in this. (Some Jews are now moving away from circumcision but again, this is a minority view, and combined with a non-Jewish mother would be a big strike against a boy being accepted as religiously Jewish in many circles without a formal conversion.)

OP, my sister went through this, with a Catholic man she loved and the whole family liked very much. Had it been just the two of them, they could have made it work. But she wanted children and was adamant that they be raised Jewish. He was adamant that any children be raised Catholic. Fortunately they realized this fundamental incompatibility before they got engaged, and broke it off. She recently married a man whose father is Jewish and his mother Catholic, but who was raised pretty much agnostic and agreed to raise any kids as Jews.

My advice is, take a hard look at what kind of family you envision -- kids? no kids? -- and how you can make it work. If religion truly is the sticking point for one or both of you, unfortunately, it may be that you simply can't make it work. It is sad but sometimes love is not enough.

Sorry I misstated a mikveh is like a baptism .

There is a lot of incorrect information here. There are many nuances to these faiths and how you and your families deal with things. I personally believe a relationship can survive if the parties have different faiths or politics but not both. You definitely need to discuss everything. Including children, where you will worship, how you will include or not the others family.

On a personal note I will say that I converted to judaism and could not be happier. We are reform by the way which does not require the mother to be Jewish or the child to be Jewish. You will find incredible similarities between the faiths which are both of the Abrahamric lineage as is Islam. The mikveh is just like a bris, the responsive prayers, the standing for certain parts of the service all feel very familiar to me and I am quite comfortable. I gave up Easter and Christmas completely. My family was fully accepting. We do the Jewish holidays with my husbands family and thanksgiving with my family. On Christmas we go out for Chinese and a movie with the rest of the Jews. I love not having to go consumer crazy at Christmas. We don't exchange Chanukah gifts so the Christmas shopping maddness doesn't plague us. Iam very content raising my children in one faith and disagree with the notion of educating them in both faiths to let them decide.

Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:You two need to figure this out now. Before the relationship goes any further. Judiasm follows the matriarch. That means unless you convert prior to giving birth, your children will not be jewish by birth.

This is one of those issues that is a deal breaker in a marriage. And compromise on this issue is not easy.

Just as a point of clarification, Reform Judiasm considers children of Jewish fathers to be Jewish as well. There are no conversion requirements for non-Jewish wives.

OP, you've gotten some very good advice here. Please read these posts carefully and give this very serious consideration. Your story is as old as humanity, so many many people have gone before you with this issue. Learn from them. Yes, it CAN work but you have some big obstacles to overcome. Sweeping it under the rug under the "we'll figure it out later" label is the biggest mistake you could ever make.

And remember: Love is not enough to build a successful marriage.