2nd 13:18 pp here.. I was the pp @ 13:17, not re Wachtell/ Susman

pp here ... p.s. I went into law because I love the intellectual challenges and the breadth of issues you can get into.... I went in not assuming I would actually practice, but did for 33 yrs.

can you get a job at wachtell or susman? if yes, go, if no, don't.

Anonymous wrote:The job market for new lawyers is in a state of collapse. It's free-falling and we won't see the bottom for a few years. Unless you can go to a top 20-25 law school, or are willing to move to an underserved market (Alaska, Wyoming, North Dakota), finding a job can be very, very tough. Law school is expensive.

If you don't know what to do with your life, keep looking. Don't go to law school . Law school is not the reliable stand-by that it used to be.

Agree completely.

When I graduated from law school 33 yrs. ago (top 25 school, moot court board director), law was still a profession. Now it is almost entirely a business. There is far less civility and professionalism. I practiced with non-profits (public defender trial & appellate) for 5 years, was an arbitrator, 2 yrs. in mid-size private firm in NJ, and 26 yrs. in a federal agency, the last 21 as a manager/ senior policy advisor and a mediator (volunteer).

Job satisfaction as a lawyer has in most cases gone down in the past 20 yrs. That was certainly my experience. The quality of life trade-off in a federal job can be worth it, although even there the job satisfaction as a federal attorney has gone down significantly over the past 10 yrs. or so.

My advice is that unless you have a clearly thought out plan for what kind of practice you want, where you want to do it, and how you might get there and sustain yourself, law is a dicey career proposition now. Even then it's not easy.

Most of my friends in private practice envied my independence and flexibility (and interesting work) without the pressure to be a rainmaker. Of course, they also make 2 to 20+ (in at least one case) times what I make, but as one noted, "you have the best odds of all of us of actually living to enjoy your retirement."

I think law is an excellent field of study. I went to law school because I loved studying the law. I went to state schools both for undergrad and law school and had no debt. I would advise more people to do it that way. A legal degree is helpful in a number of fields. I work in lobbying. When I got into lobbying, most foks (especially women) had law degrees. I can't think of anything I would have loved more studying.

It depends on your personality and the type of law that you go into. I've been at this for 10 years and still don't really feel like I have found my niche. I know others who really love what they do. I didn't pay for law school so no debt.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113941/big-law-firms-trouble-when-money-dries?wpisrc=nl_wonk_b#

Worth reading this article for insight on big law firm life.

Every single one of the attorneys I work for have told me that becoming a lawyer was something they regret, and in hindsight would have chosen a different profession.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:cut-n-paste from the inter web

My goal is to inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school.

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2012/02/first-tier-flush-george-washington.html

I graduated from GW, got a clerkship and then big law job, paid off all debt, built up retirement and savings, made big law partner, had 3 kids along the way, quit and now SAH. Life couldn't be better. So my experience differs from pp's.

How many years ago was this?

Anonymous wrote:would you recommend a legal career to someone who is interested in issues of human and social justice?

Yes, but only if $$ is not a concern. There is a lot of legal work to be done by people committed to social justice, but not a lot of money to pay for lawyers for doing that work. Jobs for social justice lawyers are hard to come by. So if this is what you want to do, don't go into debt to get your law degree. Do as many clinics/internships as you can. Network with like-minded students (look up the NLG at your school) and lawyers at non-profits. Be willing to move for the right job. Expect to work for a low salary and/or for free to start. If all that sounds OK to you, go for it!

Anonymous wrote:cut-n-paste from the inter web

My goal is to inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school.

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2012/02/first-tier-flush-george-washington.html

I graduated from GW, got a clerkship and then big law job, paid off all debt, built up retirement and savings, made big law partner, had 3 kids along the way, quit and now SAH. Life couldn't be better. So my experience differs from pp's.

Anonymous wrote:I know I am a huge voice of dissent here, but I love being a lawyer. I graduated from law school at 25 and worked in Big Law for 3 years - working hard, but honestly not any harder than i would have at anything at that time in my life (before kids). Went to a family friendly govt agency shortly after i got married and have been here for 5 years (through 2 kids - 6 months of unpaid leave with each). I work 4 days a week, am home by 4 every day (work really early schedule which it totally ok with my job) and make 100k a year. I also telework when i need to to cover doctors appts, household work, etc. I get 20 days of vacation a year, 13 federal holidays, and 13 sick days. I can't imagine another job I could love as much and yet have as much flexibility to have a work life balance.

This type of govt job is available to non-lawyers, but the salary is significantly lower - such that the flexibility isn't outweighed by the pay.

This is a good point, PP, but you are in a rare position among attorneys, and for the most part, jobs like this are only available in the DC area. It is hard if you want to move to another area of the country, where these kinds of jobs are few and far between.

Anonymous wrote:law is interesting to study. The practice of law is tedious and grueling.

This is a great description. Plus the job market for lawyers is terrible, and you will likely graduate with a lot of debt. I wouldn't recommend it

cut-n-paste from the inter web

My goal is to inform potential law school students and applicants of the ugly realities of attending law school.

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/2012/02/first-tier-flush-george-washington.html

My husband and I are both lawyers, a few years out of law school with two kids. There are pros and cons. We both have jobs we enjoy (not big law) but between student loans and day care money is extremely tight and there are almost no options for upward mobility at this time because the job market is terrible. The only way I would recommend anyone go to law school is if it is on scholarship. The debt is so limiting and the job market is absurdly competitive compared to ten or fifteen years ago. Only if you truly want to do legal work - and have a specific job goal in mind (prosecutor, public defender, attorney in x or y field) would I recommend going to law school. It's no longer a good default degree that you can "do anything with" like they used to say.