Anonymous
06/29/2013 06:57
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
But what benefit is a diverse school to the wealthy? How did my presence benefit the rich kids?
Rich kids who went to school with non-rich kids, in my belief (but I don't have data for this), are less likely to assume that:
1. Everybody (or at least everybody who matters) has all the advantages they have;
2. They are not actually rich, because there are people who are richer than they are;
3. Rich people are rich because they are more hard-working and intelligent than non-rich people;
4. Poor people are smelly, lazy, and distasteful.
People who do not assume these things are better human beings than people who do assume these things. And if being a better human being isn't a benefit, what is?
Rich people are more intelligent and hard-working than non-rich people in this area. Sorry you haven't figured that out yet.
I don't believe that affluent people are harder working than poorer people. I do think they have skills which the job market values more highly. I also think that generally these marketable skills correlate with intelligence. So, you're probably half right.
Blurgh. What about the highly educated people who choose less lucrative careers, like teacher or nonprofit exec, etc. etc.? I am constantly shocked at the arrogance of west county people who believe that their wealth is a signal that they are superior.
Generally.... correlates.... we're not talking in absolutes here. Of course there are exceptions. But if asked to bet 1000 bucks on which person was smarter, someone making $150K as an engineer or someone making 20K as a landscaper would you flip a coin to choose? I wouldn't. I would probably be wrong sometimes, but I'd guess that much more often than not I'd be right. Higher IQ correlates positively with higher salary later in life. And "less lucrative careers" doesn't mean poor; neither of the jobs you mentioned are particularly low paying.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 23:34
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
But what benefit is a diverse school to the wealthy? How did my presence benefit the rich kids?
Rich kids who went to school with non-rich kids, in my belief (but I don't have data for this), are less likely to assume that:
1. Everybody (or at least everybody who matters) has all the advantages they have;
2. They are not actually rich, because there are people who are richer than they are;
3. Rich people are rich because they are more hard-working and intelligent than non-rich people;
4. Poor people are smelly, lazy, and distasteful.
People who do not assume these things are better human beings than people who do assume these things. And if being a better human being isn't a benefit, what is?
Rich people are more intelligent and hard-working than non-rich people in this area. Sorry you haven't figured that out yet.
I don't believe that affluent people are harder working than poorer people. I do think they have skills which the job market values more highly. I also think that generally these marketable skills correlate with intelligence. So, you're probably half right.
I disagree. Several years ago, I managed a staff of about 20 people. I hired. And I found that some affluent people were far more difficult to manage because they refused to pitch in and help as a team effort. They considered some work below them, and they did not take direction well. Again, I say SOME affluent people, not all. The less affluent people I had on staff had a more limited vocabulary, but they took direction better, were eager to learn, and were more cooperative in the sense that they were willing to do tasks that weren't part of their main job description when those tasks needed to be done.
The second part of what you say is also wrong. I don't think affluence = intelligence. Higher SES kids might score better on tests, but it is not because they are more intelligent. It is usually because they are exposed to more stuff that is relevant to the tests (i.e. their families use a larger vocabulary, et cetera). But that is not the same as intelligence.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 22:55
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
But what benefit is a diverse school to the wealthy? How did my presence benefit the rich kids?
Rich kids who went to school with non-rich kids, in my belief (but I don't have data for this), are less likely to assume that:
1. Everybody (or at least everybody who matters) has all the advantages they have;
2. They are not actually rich, because there are people who are richer than they are;
3. Rich people are rich because they are more hard-working and intelligent than non-rich people;
4. Poor people are smelly, lazy, and distasteful.
People who do not assume these things are better human beings than people who do assume these things. And if being a better human being isn't a benefit, what is?
Rich people are more intelligent and hard-working than non-rich people in this area. Sorry you haven't figured that out yet.
I don't believe that affluent people are harder working than poorer people. I do think they have skills which the job market values more highly. I also think that generally these marketable skills correlate with intelligence. So, you're probably half right.
Blurgh. What about the highly educated people who choose less lucrative careers, like teacher or nonprofit exec, etc. etc.? I am constantly shocked at the arrogance of west county people who believe that their wealth is a signal that they are superior.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 22:54
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:My rising 4th grader goes to a diverse ES in MoCo and there is definitely segregation within the class. At this point, I am not sure though that my kid has really clued in: all of the minority kids are in the lower reading and math groups and all of the white kids are in the higher ones. All of the minority kids buy lunch daily and the white kids do not. The white kids have playdates and sleepovers with one another, minority kids are usually not asked to be included. The list goes on. That is not to say there aren't friendships between the kids but that they are not very deep.
My kindergartner was the only white boy in his class this year and I have concerns about how this will play out in the future socially. None of the other boys ever invited him over, they don't have birthday parties, etc. This is not the end of the world but to me, these are normal kid things and I hate that he is missing out.
I think that in the long run the exposure to a diverse set of cultures and backgrounds is good but in the short run I worry.
This hasn't been our experience at all. Both my kids in diverse Silver Spring schools have friends of a variety of races -- in fact, in DS' little social group he is the only white kid. It is not segregated.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 22:22
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
But what benefit is a diverse school to the wealthy? How did my presence benefit the rich kids?
Rich kids who went to school with non-rich kids, in my belief (but I don't have data for this), are less likely to assume that:
1. Everybody (or at least everybody who matters) has all the advantages they have;
2. They are not actually rich, because there are people who are richer than they are;
3. Rich people are rich because they are more hard-working and intelligent than non-rich people;
4. Poor people are smelly, lazy, and distasteful.
People who do not assume these things are better human beings than people who do assume these things. And if being a better human being isn't a benefit, what is?
Rich people are more intelligent and hard-working than non-rich people in this area. Sorry you haven't figured that out yet.
I don't believe that affluent people are harder working than poorer people. I do think they have skills which the job market values more highly. I also think that generally these marketable skills correlate with intelligence. So, you're probably half right.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 21:21
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
But what benefit is a diverse school to the wealthy? How did my presence benefit the rich kids?
Rich kids who went to school with non-rich kids, in my belief (but I don't have data for this), are less likely to assume that:
1. Everybody (or at least everybody who matters) has all the advantages they have;
2. They are not actually rich, because there are people who are richer than they are;
3. Rich people are rich because they are more hard-working and intelligent than non-rich people;
4. Poor people are smelly, lazy, and distasteful.
People who do not assume these things are better human beings than people who do assume these things. And if being a better human being isn't a benefit, what is?
Rich people are more intelligent and hard-working than non-rich people in this area. Sorry you haven't figured that out yet.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 21:07
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
MoCo is humongous, it should really be 2-3 counties but then it wouldn't have Bethesda subsidizing all 200 schools.
This isn't at all unique here, in America, or in the world. People buy or rent a home they can afford to minimize commutes, to have good amenities like schools, to live near family/help and/or to have a nice house they can live with.
Is the 2008-high school grad author saying we should all double our commutes, send our kids to a school with an underperforming student body, or buy any house in the huge country and lobby the local authorities to bus everyone 30-60 minutes in rush hour to Whitman or BCC or Wooten? As if that's how anything works. Not even nyc does that with its high performing public high schools.
This isn't at all unique here, in America, or in the world. People buy or rent a home they can afford to minimize commutes, to have good amenities like schools, to live near family/help and/or to have a nice house they can live with.
Is the 2008-high school grad author saying we should all double our commutes, send our kids to a school with an underperforming student body, or buy any house in the huge country and lobby the local authorities to bus everyone 30-60 minutes in rush hour to Whitman or BCC or Wooten? As if that's how anything works. Not even nyc does that with its high performing public high schools.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 15:26
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:My rising 4th grader goes to a diverse ES in MoCo and there is definitely segregation within the class. At this point, I am not sure though that my kid has really clued in: all of the minority kids are in the lower reading and math groups and all of the white kids are in the higher ones. All of the minority kids buy lunch daily and the white kids do not. The white kids have playdates and sleepovers with one another, minority kids are usually not asked to be included. The list goes on. That is not to say there aren't friendships between the kids but that they are not very deep.
Our elementary school is about a quarter white and about a fifth FARMS, and I don't think that there is segregation like that -- but then the single-largest demographic group at the school is Asian, which (as somebody commented in the article) is not what people usually mean when they say "minority" in Montgomery County. But there are also white kids in the lower reading and math groups. The school boundaries include MPDUs, which I think are probably Montgomery County's best hope for socioeconomic diversity.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 14:46
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
My rising 4th grader goes to a diverse ES in MoCo and there is definitely segregation within the class. At this point, I am not sure though that my kid has really clued in: all of the minority kids are in the lower reading and math groups and all of the white kids are in the higher ones. All of the minority kids buy lunch daily and the white kids do not. The white kids have playdates and sleepovers with one another, minority kids are usually not asked to be included. The list goes on. That is not to say there aren't friendships between the kids but that they are not very deep.
My kindergartner was the only white boy in his class this year and I have concerns about how this will play out in the future socially. None of the other boys ever invited him over, they don't have birthday parties, etc. This is not the end of the world but to me, these are normal kid things and I hate that he is missing out.
I think that in the long run the exposure to a diverse set of cultures and backgrounds is good but in the short run I worry.
My kindergartner was the only white boy in his class this year and I have concerns about how this will play out in the future socially. None of the other boys ever invited him over, they don't have birthday parties, etc. This is not the end of the world but to me, these are normal kid things and I hate that he is missing out.
I think that in the long run the exposure to a diverse set of cultures and backgrounds is good but in the short run I worry.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 14:11
Subject: Re:De factor segregation threatens MCPS
It also has been shown that if you have a small diverse school kids will have diverse friend.
If you have a huge (like MoCo) diverse school kids self segregate within the school.
Parent's can't expect to get everything from school.
Parents, If diversity is so important why not just make your life more diverse and your kids will then be hanging out with the kids of your friends.
If you have a huge (like MoCo) diverse school kids self segregate within the school.
Parent's can't expect to get everything from school.
Parents, If diversity is so important why not just make your life more diverse and your kids will then be hanging out with the kids of your friends.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 13:51
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:Unless you live in a small town that only has one high school, isn't this happening in every city/school district across the country?
Even that small town would need to have 1 elementary, 1 jr. high.
I grew up in a small town. My small town had 5 elementary schools that fed into 1 jr. high and 1 high school. When I went to elementary school in the '80's, our school was the "poor school" and you bet the town people knew what were the good (rich) schools.
When we were all combined in jr. high and high school, we were still segregated - just this time based on what classes we were taking.
I do understand the author's point, but this isn't a unique problem to MCPS. It's happening all over the countyr.
I would think that the problem is just much more dramatic in Montgomery County because it has 150,000 students, including some of the very wealthiest in the nation, as well as the very poor. It is less likely that a small town school district has these extremes.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 13:26
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Unless you live in a small town that only has one high school, isn't this happening in every city/school district across the country?
Even that small town would need to have 1 elementary, 1 jr. high.
I grew up in a small town. My small town had 5 elementary schools that fed into 1 jr. high and 1 high school. When I went to elementary school in the '80's, our school was the "poor school" and you bet the town people knew what were the good (rich) schools.
When we were all combined in jr. high and high school, we were still segregated - just this time based on what classes we were taking.
I do understand the author's point, but this isn't a unique problem to MCPS. It's happening all over the countyr.
Even that small town would need to have 1 elementary, 1 jr. high.
I grew up in a small town. My small town had 5 elementary schools that fed into 1 jr. high and 1 high school. When I went to elementary school in the '80's, our school was the "poor school" and you bet the town people knew what were the good (rich) schools.
When we were all combined in jr. high and high school, we were still segregated - just this time based on what classes we were taking.
I do understand the author's point, but this isn't a unique problem to MCPS. It's happening all over the countyr.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 13:00
Subject: Re:De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Personally, I would value more diversity and we're lucky to be in great cluster that is internationally diverse. It hasn't been brought here but IMO busing or school-wide choice is bad solution to the problem.
One of the compelling aspects of public school is community. We switched from private and the fact that the kids go to school with neighbors makes a big difference. They see each other at activities in the area and it requires less planning to car pool and just have people over. The school fun events are more widely attended because everyone is close by. These things do make a difference for kids and is an experience I would like them to continue to have.
I also don't think its good from a safety standpoint to have young children commuting 30+ minutes to an hour each way to another school.
Agree with this. We are in a W school and if it was a county wide school, and kids in our neighborhood went to schools all over, then we would probably go back to private school. I suspect the same would be true of others. Then MCPS becomes more like DCPS.
Oh the horror. I am a W school graduate who sends her DCs to DCPS. W schools are completely overrated. Their test scores are nothing more than a reflection of SES. If your child went to school with a more socio-economically diverse group of students he/she would do just as well. I guarantee it.
I didn't say that wouldn't be the case. I was commenting on the sense of community. After being in a private school with kids from all over the area we have really enjoyed being in the local school and having many more connections with kids/families in the neighborhood. If that goes away then we'd be back in private school (which was, by the way, more diverse than our public school so it wouldn't be fleeing racial diversity).
Good for you for sending your kid to DCPS. MANY of your neighbors don't seem to have the same confidence in DCPS that you do - hence the tremendous anxiety about getting in to private schools and giving up vacations, savings, etc to pay the tuition.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 12:40
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
The only diversity that matters in school performance is socio-economic.
Majority of affluent kids (whites, blacks, hispanic, asians) - will follow the same expectation and path to college and will be high achieving in any school.
Majority of affluent kids (whites, blacks, hispanic, asians) - will follow the same expectation and path to college and will be high achieving in any school.
Anonymous
06/28/2013 12:37
Subject: De factor segregation threatens MCPS
Anonymous wrote:I currently live in Rockville, but am relatively new to the area. I've definately noticed the segregation in MCPS. Does anyone know if there is something similar happening in VA? Or are the counties there more equal (racially and economically)? Just curious...
Well I know there is a divide between North Arlington and South Arlington schools. I don't know about other areas of NOVA.