Anonymous
06/20/2013 22:15
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:
Those are the messages supported by contemporary interpretations of many major religions (though perhaps not the orthodoxy).
How so?
Christianity and Judaism and Islam all teach there is a wrong way and the right way, all threaten with punishment by God - you will be judged, so the love is conditional rather.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 21:45
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anecdotes aren't "proof."
Anonymous
06/20/2013 21:39
Subject: Re:Proof of heaven
Perhaps I will be the lone voice of dissent, but I did not like the book. Nothing about it came anywhere near close to convincing me this man's experience was "real."
Anonymous
06/20/2013 21:28
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When you're about to die, there is a surge of hormones in the brain. It's like the body's natural, evolutionary shut-down mechanism to make death more "pleasant." Occasionally, someone makes it back from that surge.
It's kind of uncanny how people's near-death experiences are conditioned by their own belief systems and cultures - rarely (never?) is it polytheistic, and feature a more vengeful deity.
Well, his visions were not of Jesus or heaven and hell. BUT of higher beings, being very close to God, but not seeing it - feeling it, higher level dimensions, telepathy. The messages he got were
1. You're loved
2. You have nothing to fear; and
3. There is nothing you can do wrong
These are not messages supported by the major religions who advocate fear of God, fear of judgement and punishment, guilt of being sinful.
Those are the messages supported by contemporary interpretations of many major religions (though perhaps not the orthodoxy). They're also things that many people wish our parents were like, which bears a non-coincidental similarity to a force (called "god") that we hope to believe in - that which we want/need, but never fully had. It's a fairly infantile, simplistic-need kind of vision.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 21:22
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this clever harvard-trained neuro-surgeon found a way to make some money on a book
Right, because neuro-surgeons struggle. Especially the ones who come from wealthy families.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 21:21
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:When you're about to die, there is a surge of hormones in the brain. It's like the body's natural, evolutionary shut-down mechanism to make death more "pleasant." Occasionally, someone makes it back from that surge.
It's kind of uncanny how people's near-death experiences are conditioned by their own belief systems and cultures - rarely (never?) is it polytheistic, and feature a more vengeful deity.
Well, his visions were not of Jesus or heaven and hell. BUT of higher beings, being very close to God, but not seeing it - feeling it, higher level dimensions, telepathy. The messages he got were
1. You're loved
2. You have nothing to fear; and
3. There is nothing you can do wrong
These are not messages supported by the major religions who advocate fear of God, fear of judgement and punishment, guilt of being sinful.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 21:12
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When you're about to die, there is a surge of hormones in the brain. It's like the body's natural, evolutionary shut-down mechanism to make death more "pleasant." Occasionally, someone makes it back from that surge.
It's kind of uncanny how people's near-death experiences are conditioned by their own belief systems and cultures - rarely (never?) is it polytheistic, and feature a more vengeful deity.
A co-worker of mine had a heart attack and was clinically dead for several minutes. I visited him in the hospital about a week later. He told me his near death experience was very scary and unpleasant. He did not want to talk specifically about the details. We moved on to a different topic and never spoke of it again. It was clearly very upsetting to him. This was over 15 years ago, and I cannot recall his exact words. It was something like, "I went to a very bad place. It was awful."
He became religious.
That is interesting because you usually only hear about positive NDE.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 20:19
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Slightly OT but kind of relevant. Doesn't the fact that we exist at all just blow your mind? For me that was one of the driving forces in investigating the existence of higher power - in my case God/Jesus. I really find it amazing that people dismiss God outright without any attempt at finding out if He exists.
This is a myth about atheists. The atheists I know were all raised in religious homes and spent a good portion of their lives thinking about God and looking for God. They finally came to the conclusion that God isn't there.
+1
I came from a liberal Muslim household. I don't have any ill regard concerning the type of religion/Islam I grew up with. My atheism is a logical conclusion. I don't believe in any religions, and I don't believe in any gods. The likeliness of Islam and Allah being real, is exactly the same as Ancient Egyptian theology and Osiris being real.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 20:17
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When you're about to die, there is a surge of hormones in the brain. It's like the body's natural, evolutionary shut-down mechanism to make death more "pleasant." Occasionally, someone makes it back from that surge.
It's kind of uncanny how people's near-death experiences are conditioned by their own belief systems and cultures - rarely (never?) is it polytheistic, and feature a more vengeful deity.
A co-worker of mine had a heart attack and was clinically dead for several minutes. I visited him in the hospital about a week later. He told me his near death experience was very scary and unpleasant. He did not want to talk specifically about the details. We moved on to a different topic and never spoke of it again. It was clearly very upsetting to him. This was over 15 years ago, and I cannot recall his exact words. It was something like, "I went to a very bad place. It was awful."
He became religious.
One's personal human conditioning is a big part of how they may experience being on the verge of death. The human brain is an amazing, wondrous, imaginative thing that pulls from all our nooks and crannies at times - even the dark ones.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 20:15
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Slightly OT but kind of relevant. Doesn't the fact that we exist at all just blow your mind? For me that was one of the driving forces in investigating the existence of higher power - in my case God/Jesus. I really find it amazing that people dismiss God outright without any attempt at finding out if He exists.
Human beings have created thousands of gods over the course of our species. Literally, thousands of gods. Deciding which one is "right" or "real" is like deciding which duvet cover is "right" or "real." It all boils down to personal preference. Additionally, many interpretations of god are not at all a "He."
Anonymous
06/20/2013 19:59
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Slightly OT but kind of relevant. Doesn't the fact that we exist at all just blow your mind? For me that was one of the driving forces in investigating the existence of higher power - in my case God/Jesus. I really find it amazing that people dismiss God outright without any attempt at finding out if He exists.
This is a myth about atheists. The atheists I know were all raised in religious homes and spent a good portion of their lives thinking about God and looking for God. They finally came to the conclusion that God isn't there.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 17:32
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
It's kind of uncanny how people's near-death experiences are conditioned by their own belief systems and cultures - rarely (never?) is it polytheistic, and feature a more vengeful deity.
+1 This is very wise.
if one person has an imaginary friend, it's they're crazy. If many people have the same imaginary friend, it's religion?
Anonymous
06/20/2013 16:00
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Slightly OT but kind of relevant. Doesn't the fact that we exist at all just blow your mind? For me that was one of the driving forces in investigating the existence of higher power - in my case God/Jesus. I really find it amazing that people dismiss God outright without any attempt at finding out if He exists.
This is the stupidest comment I have read today. Thanks.
cheers!
Anonymous
06/20/2013 15:33
Subject: Proof of heaven
Anonymous wrote:When you're about to die, there is a surge of hormones in the brain. It's like the body's natural, evolutionary shut-down mechanism to make death more "pleasant." Occasionally, someone makes it back from that surge.
It's kind of uncanny how people's near-death experiences are conditioned by their own belief systems and cultures - rarely (never?) is it polytheistic, and feature a more vengeful deity.
A co-worker of mine had a heart attack and was clinically dead for several minutes. I visited him in the hospital about a week later. He told me his near death experience was very scary and unpleasant. He did not want to talk specifically about the details. We moved on to a different topic and never spoke of it again. It was clearly very upsetting to him. This was over 15 years ago, and I cannot recall his exact words. It was something like, "I went to a very bad place. It was awful."
He became religious.
Anonymous
06/20/2013 15:11
Subject: Proof of heaven
that would be "The Scalpel and the Soul" by Allan Hamilton.