A news article on a study that reports data =\= denunciation or criticism.

Though I find it interesting that people are evidently feeling denounced and criticized.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilarious. Self-segregation is the ultimate goal of just about every parent in DC area. People pay insane amounts for housing and spend hours each day commuting to their jobs so that their kids can go to segregated schools. And when they succeed, someone writes an article denouncing it? Where does the author live? In Anacostia? Or does he simply avoid the issue by sending his kids to St.Albans?

At least you are acknowledging it happens. I am getting the impressions some in this thread think it just worked out that way. Just as much as minorities have continued to live in pg and Balt, non-minorities have fled those areas. This is no accident people. Also economics and the cost of housing plays a huge role.

I don't just acknowledge that "it happens." I assert that people want it that way - really badly. They demonstrate it with their feet and their wallets every day! Now, here's the question - why does the media always feel the need to criticize the choice the people here choose to make? I thought that we were a democratic country where the will of the people is respected.

should read "not too far"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilarious. Self-segregation is the ultimate goal of just about every parent in DC area. People pay insane amounts for housing and spend hours each day commuting to their jobs so that their kids can go to segregated schools. And when they succeed, someone writes an article denouncing it? Where does the author live? In Anacostia? Or does he simply avoid the issue by sending his kids to St.Albans?

At least you are acknowledging it happens. I am getting the impressions some in this thread think it just worked out that way. Just as much as minorities have continued to live in pg and Balt, non-minorities have fled those areas. This is no accident people. Also economics and the cost of housing plays a huge role.

I am the one who first suggested that the schools only reflect the local population. I didn't make the comment you quoted, but I'm also not naive to think that things just "worked out that way." My point is that the article focuses on the schools, as if it is anything that the school districts have done or engineered. The article should instead focus on why neighborhoods and counties are so segregated in what is supposed to be one of the most liberal, democratic states in the country and one that has within it one of the wealthiest counties in the country not to far from one of the highest crime cities in the country. In a small state like Maryland, the disparities are pretty visible, and it would make for a good investigation. But the place to start isn't with the schools.

Anonymous wrote:Hilarious. Self-segregation is the ultimate goal of just about every parent in DC area. People pay insane amounts for housing and spend hours each day commuting to their jobs so that their kids can go to segregated schools. And when they succeed, someone writes an article denouncing it? Where does the author live? In Anacostia? Or does he simply avoid the issue by sending his kids to St.Albans?

Well, and no one wants to really talk about that. The problem is that even if they change they way the school districts are determined, people will either move or they'll send their kids to private schools. I've been amazed when seemingly progressive, open-minded people make all kinds of excuses when it's pretty clear they moved to a certain area because of race.

It's also interesting how people react when I tell them I live in PG County. I get all kinds of remarks about the "schools" or the "taxes" from people who, in some cases, don't have children and paid a significantly higher amount for a smaller house with a longer commute (think gas money) to, as they claim, avoid what amounts to a slightly higher property and income tax. I call bullshit.

Anonymous wrote:Hilarious. Self-segregation is the ultimate goal of just about every parent in DC area. People pay insane amounts for housing and spend hours each day commuting to their jobs so that their kids can go to segregated schools. And when they succeed, someone writes an article denouncing it? Where does the author live? In Anacostia? Or does he simply avoid the issue by sending his kids to St.Albans?

At least you are acknowledging it happens. I am getting the impressions some in this thread think it just worked out that way. Just as much as minorities have continued to live in pg and Balt, non-minorities have fled those areas. This is no accident people. Also economics and the cost of housing plays a huge role.

Hilarious. Self-segregation is the ultimate goal of just about every parent in DC area. People pay insane amounts for housing and spend hours each day commuting to their jobs so that their kids can go to segregated schools. And when they succeed, someone writes an article denouncing it? Where does the author live? In Anacostia? Or does he simply avoid the issue by sending his kids to St.Albans?

Anonymous wrote:I thought the ultimate form of "self-segregation" was enrolling your children in private school. You know, the way the President has done. Why don't you pontificate about that before you start suggesting that families who send their kids to public schools are doing something that is "self-segregating."

Funny, I assume OP is the rabid private school booster, back once again with his claim that "private schools are more diverse than public schools." It looks like you and I agree this is BS, but I'm not so sure about OP.

Self-segregation begins with where you live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the ultimate form of "self-segregation" was enrolling your children in private school. You know, the way the President has done. Why don't you pontificate about that before you start suggesting that families who send their kids to public schools are doing something that is "self-segregating."

It really comes down to not self segregating when you choose the neighborhood you live in. Even privates are self segregated. There are all black and all hispanic private schools.

Well, and that is a separate conversation that isn't necessarily about school. In the DC area, there is a lot of self-segregation, even among people who don't have kids (so the old "the schools are bad" argument just doesn't fly).

And no one can blame this on a political party or on the right or the left, because it's pretty clear that the self-segregation happens among both conservatives and liberals.

Anonymous wrote:

I would also add that I don't think it is true that the underperformance of those schools has to do with financial resources. I believe the amount per-child spent in PG County is the same, if not more, than the per-child amount spent in Montgomery County.

The educational level of the parents is lower in less affluent areas. In areas with more educated parents, the schools are handed the higher test scores.

You can argue that MCPS isn't really teaching the kids at all. Most kids are taught as much if not more at home. In our area, every K walks in already reading or close to it. They have been taught basic math and went to pretty good preschools. Half the elementary school is in Kumon after school. We're more low key and don't spend intentional time teaching our kids at home but even our kids have known basically everything that has been taught in K-1st grade a year before it was introduced in school. The higher test scores in MCPS don't come from how much they spend per student or any superior teaching ability.

I'm the poster you quoted, and I think that what you suggest is what researchers should investigate. Why do some school systems perform better when both get the same financial resources, have the same teacher education/certification standards, et cetera? There has to be something else going on. That's what researchers need to identify.

But pointing out the obvious -- that an area that is predominantly one race will have schools that predominantly consist of that same race -- doesn't add anything to the conversation.

Anonymous wrote:De facto segregation is still segregation.

It's not the same, though. The word "segregation" is a loaded word.

I don't think you can engineer society. One could also argue that historically black colleges are segregated because they have majority minority populations, but that's largely because they attract majority minority populations.

In Maryland, overall, your address determines your school. If the neighborhood that feeds to a particular school is majority minority, then it is reasonable to assume the school is going to be majority minority.

You can't force people to move to certain neighborhoods. And especially for young children, I don't think they will have an increased likelihood of success if they have to travel 30 minutes or more both ways to get to school each day.

What the article doesn't mention is that I don't believe there are any public schools in PG or Baltimore City that are NOT majority minority. So what do you do? Force kids from another county to attend the PG school and take kids out of PG to attend a school in AA county? Because the demographics are such that PG and Baltimore are majority minority areas.

It doesn't seem to matter to me so much whether a school is predominantly one race or not. What matters and what we should focus our attention on is that all kids get a good education, so we should focus on identifying why schools in PG and Balt. City aren't performing well and help improve them. Then it won't matter what the majority race is in any one school district; all kids in all districts will have access to a quality eduction.

Anonymous wrote:I thought the ultimate form of "self-segregation" was enrolling your children in private school. You know, the way the President has done. Why don't you pontificate about that before you start suggesting that families who send their kids to public schools are doing something that is "self-segregating."

It really comes down to not self segregating when you choose the neighborhood you live in. Even privates are self segregated. There are all black and all hispanic private schools.

I would also add that I don't think it is true that the underperformance of those schools has to do with financial resources. I believe the amount per-child spent in PG County is the same, if not more, than the per-child amount spent in Montgomery County.

The educational level of the parents is lower in less affluent areas. In areas with more educated parents, the schools are handed the higher test scores.

You can argue that MCPS isn't really teaching the kids at all. Most kids are taught as much if not more at home. In our area, every K walks in already reading or close to it. They have been taught basic math and went to pretty good preschools. Half the elementary school is in Kumon after school. We're more low key and don't spend intentional time teaching our kids at home but even our kids have known basically everything that has been taught in K-1st grade a year before it was introduced in school. The higher test scores in MCPS don't come from how much they spend per student or any superior teaching ability.

I thought the ultimate form of "self-segregation" was enrolling your children in private school. You know, the way the President has done. Why don't you pontificate about that before you start suggesting that families who send their kids to public schools are doing something that is "self-segregating."