Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 17:43     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:10:19 here again, I messed up this response.

by "read through here," I didn't mean this particular thread. I mean these boards in general. There are a few threads on income and what people define as comfortable, and it always shocks me what people consider middle class, rich, et cetera. I get the impression there are a lot of wealthy people in this region who consider themselves merely middle class, but in reality, their lifestyles, et cetera, are definitely at the least upper middle class, but more likely upper class. And that perspective rubs off on the kids, so the kids grow up with a really strange view of what constitutes poor, middle class, wealthy. And a lot of kids don't really how affluent they really are compared to the rest of the nation and certainly the rest of the world.


I always feel like the goal should be not to give kids anxiety about money BUT to instill in them that they already have a lot and cannot have everything they want because things cost a lot. I feel like the second part always gets lost in this area where there is so much affluence that even down to earth people fall into the keeping up with the Jones mentality. People here (esp on DCUM) have a warped view of what is middle versus upper class but lets face it, most of them are not SO upper class that they should not be prepping their kids for real life. Sure a family making 400k is doing fantastic but unless they are living a truly middle/lower middle lifestyle, they likely are not setting their kids up with trust funds that will last for life. Thus, there is a need to prep that kid for what real life is like -- i.e. when you graduate college and get your first job, you may not have the fanciest cable package there is, and you may not be jetting off to Europe for every vacation; even if a kid graduates and is a lawyer/doctor -- 150k-200k just will not buy the lifestyle right away that many kids are so used to that they feel like they "deserve" it. I think there's nothing wrong with controlling the mindset early -- be it that big presents are only for Christmas/bdays, we only buy clothes and shoes x times a year, or you get a fixed amount for clothes and shoes and if you blow it all on one item, that's it etc. I also agree that kids don't need constant activity that costs money -- there is no reason that they can't sit quietly in a car w/o a video screen or that they have to take a lesson in every sport/hobby they ever wanted to dabble in, even if it will be 5 min of real interest followed by a whole season of dabbling -- there is nothing wrong with saying no.


OMG, you talk too much!
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 17:39     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:10:19 here again, I messed up this response.

by "read through here," I didn't mean this particular thread. I mean these boards in general. There are a few threads on income and what people define as comfortable, and it always shocks me what people consider middle class, rich, et cetera. I get the impression there are a lot of wealthy people in this region who consider themselves merely middle class, but in reality, their lifestyles, et cetera, are definitely at the least upper middle class, but more likely upper class. And that perspective rubs off on the kids, so the kids grow up with a really strange view of what constitutes poor, middle class, wealthy. And a lot of kids don't really how affluent they really are compared to the rest of the nation and certainly the rest of the world.


I always feel like the goal should be not to give kids anxiety about money BUT to instill in them that they already have a lot and cannot have everything they want because things cost a lot. I feel like the second part always gets lost in this area where there is so much affluence that even down to earth people fall into the keeping up with the Jones mentality. People here (esp on DCUM) have a warped view of what is middle versus upper class but lets face it, most of them are not SO upper class that they should not be prepping their kids for real life. Sure a family making 400k is doing fantastic but unless they are living a truly middle/lower middle lifestyle, they likely are not setting their kids up with trust funds that will last for life. Thus, there is a need to prep that kid for what real life is like -- i.e. when you graduate college and get your first job, you may not have the fanciest cable package there is, and you may not be jetting off to Europe for every vacation; even if a kid graduates and is a lawyer/doctor -- 150k-200k just will not buy the lifestyle right away that many kids are so used to that they feel like they "deserve" it. I think there's nothing wrong with controlling the mindset early -- be it that big presents are only for Christmas/bdays, we only buy clothes and shoes x times a year, or you get a fixed amount for clothes and shoes and if you blow it all on one item, that's it etc. I also agree that kids don't need constant activity that costs money -- there is no reason that they can't sit quietly in a car w/o a video screen or that they have to take a lesson in every sport/hobby they ever wanted to dabble in, even if it will be 5 min of real interest followed by a whole season of dabbling -- there is nothing wrong with saying no.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 12:16     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:OP again. I agree with folks who talk about the anxiety. It has been a problem for me too and I had to get therapy before I could turn on the heat in the winter even though I'd been able to afford heat for years. (Therapy really helped, btw.) I certainly don't want that for my kids. But I agree with 10:46 who noticed that her friend's kid can't seem to entertain herself without a lesson or a video or whatever. The middle class kids in our family seem to be that way too. When I was a kid the answer to the "I'm bored" question was "use your imagination." I feel like it's helped me a lot - both having an imagination and the implicit lesson that I am responsible for my own happiness (and that you can have plenty of fun without having "stuff").


I'm PP who mentioned the anxiety. My significant other often teases me because I stress over spending any money. We ordered a movie on cable the other night, and I thought it was sort of excessive. And he said sarcastically, "don't worry, $8 isn't going to put us over the edge." But it's definitely a carryover from childhood when my parents literally had to watch every dollar they spent. It's very difficult to get out of that mindset and that anxiety around money.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 11:51     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Neither I nor my children are poor by any standard, even though we live on less than the average DCUM income

But one side-effect of our recent year-long joblessness was the positive effect it had on our oldest, who understood that having a job meant you could have money to eat and pay for your house and health. And that if there anything left over, then and only then you could get a toy for your birthday, or new clothes.

And I think that is a great life lesson.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 11:28     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:10:34 here. OP, the response to "I'm bored" in both my poor childhood home and to my children is the same: "Well, here are some chores to do." If you can't come up with something to keep yourself entertained, you might as well be helping the family.

Very effective, then and now!

Thanks 10:34! I'm definitely going to try and remember that one.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 11:20     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
10:34 here. OP, the response to "I'm bored" in both my poor childhood home and to my children is the same: "Well, here are some chores to do." If you can't come up with something to keep yourself entertained, you might as well be helping the family.

Very effective, then and now!
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 11:00     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
OP again. I agree with folks who talk about the anxiety. It has been a problem for me too and I had to get therapy before I could turn on the heat in the winter even though I'd been able to afford heat for years. (Therapy really helped, btw.) I certainly don't want that for my kids. But I agree with 10:46 who noticed that her friend's kid can't seem to entertain herself without a lesson or a video or whatever. The middle class kids in our family seem to be that way too. When I was a kid the answer to the "I'm bored" question was "use your imagination." I feel like it's helped me a lot - both having an imagination and the implicit lesson that I am responsible for my own happiness (and that you can have plenty of fun without having "stuff").
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:52     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
10:19 here again, I messed up this response.

by "read through here," I didn't mean this particular thread. I mean these boards in general. There are a few threads on income and what people define as comfortable, and it always shocks me what people consider middle class, rich, et cetera. I get the impression there are a lot of wealthy people in this region who consider themselves merely middle class, but in reality, their lifestyles, et cetera, are definitely at the least upper middle class, but more likely upper class. And that perspective rubs off on the kids, so the kids grow up with a really strange view of what constitutes poor, middle class, wealthy. And a lot of kids don't really how affluent they really are compared to the rest of the nation and certainly the rest of the world.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:51     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not to the extent that you are talking about, but I did not grow up with a lot of luxuries. Dinner out was for bdays. Presents were special not an every day occurrence. New clothes happened in August for school. As a result if I wanted something I had to work. That meant I got a job at 14. I also understood that the way out of this lifestyle was education. I studied hard and was accepted to the IB program. Of course my parents couldn't afford college so it was on me to find a way to pay for it. Again, through studying hard and scholarships, I was able to go to a top school. I still needed 2 jobs in college to make ends meet. Many a friend wondered why I was working. But since I had been doing it for so long and it was all I knew, it was not until much later in life that it dawned.on me that other people didn't have jobs in college.

So while I would not want that lifestyle for my kids, I do want them to have a work ethic and know that money doesn't grow on trees. I think the way to teach that is to make the kids accountable and responsible. They need to learn the value of a dollar and what it takes to earn it.


This is me, exactly, except I had three jobs in college. ^^^^ Barely middle class in a Midwestern state. Not poverty, but very close to the national poverty line for a family of 5.

I respectfully disagree with this PP, a little bit, and kind of get what OP is asking. (Useful to have been poor?)

As difficult as times were (sometimes), I absolutely believe the experience built great character and -- my point, finally -- it created a can-do-anything attitude in me and my sibs that I frankly do not see much "in these parts." My kid is growing up in these parts, in affluence, and I would say more resembles the neighbors from Bergen County/Bethesda/Lower Merion Township than my family of origin. I'm ambivalent about that.


10:19 here again, by "read through here," I didn't mean this particular thread. I mean these boards in general. There are a few threads on income and what people define as comfortable, and it always shocks me what people consider middle class, rich, et cetera. I get the impression there are a lot of wealthy people in this region who consider themselves merely middle class, but in reality, their lifestyles, et cetera, are definitely at the least upper middle class, but more likely upper class. And that perspective rubs off on the kids, so the kids grow up with a really strange view of what constitutes poor, middle class, wealthy. And a lot of kids don't really how affluent they really are compared to the rest of the nation and certainly the rest of the world.

10:19 poster here. I totally get what you're saying. I think part of the problem around here is that not only do children grow up with a lot of money/affluence, but they're surrounded by affluence. The perspective they develop is way off, meaning what they view as "poverty" is really middle class. I mean, if you read through here, if parents think an HHI of 150k is barely middle class and they're raising their kids with that view, then they're going to grow up with a very warped perspective.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:47     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you like reading parenting or sociology books, check out Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life.

http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Childhoods-Class-Race-Family/dp/0520271424

As someone who was raised working class and at times poor, and who is now upper middle class, I found this book spot on in describing the overwhelming strengths daily life in the middle class give your kids. It's profound how big the gulf is. That doesn't mean it's ideal. There is a benefit to some entitlement mentality (kids advocate for themselves and learn how to do so as adults), but it can obviously go too far (and does). There is a lot to be said for some parenting techniques used by poor parents. Kids are more creative, closer to family, don't get bored or exhausted from hyper over scheduling. My goal is to find a happy mixture for my child, which I think I'm doing pretty well at, so far.

Highly recommend the book if you like reading that sort of thing.


10:21 poster again- thanks for this link! I just ordered the book, it sounds fascinating! It reminds me of a PBS documentary I saw years ago called 'People Like Us'.


OP here. Thanks for the book recommendation. It sounds a lot like a similar book I read a few years ago called, "Limbo: Blue Collar Roots, White Collar Dreams" (http://www.amazon.com/Limbo-Blue-Collar-Roots-White-Collar-Dreams/dp/0471714399) Limbo is not about parenting per se, but it is about the different strengths and weaknesses associated with the different social classes. If you are interested in such topics it's another good read.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:46     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:If you like reading parenting or sociology books, check out Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life.

http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Childhoods-Class-Race-Family/dp/0520271424

As someone who was raised working class and at times poor, and who is now upper middle class, I found this book spot on in describing the overwhelming strengths daily life in the middle class give your kids. It's profound how big the gulf is. That doesn't mean it's ideal. There is a benefit to some entitlement mentality (kids advocate for themselves and learn how to do so as adults), but it can obviously go too far (and does). There is a lot to be said for some parenting techniques used by poor parents. Kids are more creative, closer to family, don't get bored or exhausted from hyper over scheduling. My goal is to find a happy mixture for my child, which I think I'm doing pretty well at, so far.

Highly recommend the book if you like reading that sort of thing.


10:19 poster here. Sounds like an interesting read.

My friend's spoiled child has WAY too many structured activities/lessons, and I often think that part of the problem is that the kid has no idea how to entertain herself or be alone with her own thoughts for a while. I mean, even in the car, there's a video screen!

And I worry that so many kids are raised with ALL of their time in lessons and planned activities, that they have no idea about self-direction or initiating things on their own, et cetera.

My parents could never afford lessons. I really wanted to take piano lessons as a kid, but it was an impossibility. And they also couldn't afford activities. So I made my own fun. I learned to do things on my own. I developed a love of animals, because we did have a dog (that was when even poor people could afford a dog), and I would find turtles and I would spend a lot of time outside, observing nature.

So I am grateful for that. But I still feel like the carryover anxiety I got from my parents about money had such a horrible effect on me, that even as an adult, I haven't been able to shake it.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:43     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you like reading parenting or sociology books, check out Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life.

http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Childhoods-Class-Race-Family/dp/0520271424

As someone who was raised working class and at times poor, and who is now upper middle class, I found this book spot on in describing the overwhelming strengths daily life in the middle class give your kids. It's profound how big the gulf is. That doesn't mean it's ideal. There is a benefit to some entitlement mentality (kids advocate for themselves and learn how to do so as adults), but it can obviously go too far (and does). There is a lot to be said for some parenting techniques used by poor parents. Kids are more creative, closer to family, don't get bored or exhausted from hyper over scheduling. My goal is to find a happy mixture for my child, which I think I'm doing pretty well at, so far.

Highly recommend the book if you like reading that sort of thing.


10:21 poster again- thanks for this link! I just ordered the book, it sounds fascinating! It reminds me of a PBS documentary I saw years ago called 'People Like Us'.


I LOVE "People Like Us."
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:42     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
I grew up lower middle income in a school district that was mostly middle to upper SES. We were not in poverty, although there were times when money was really tight at the end of the month. We drank boxed milk at times because it was cheaper.

My parent's made sure I understood how lucky we were. They volunteered and ran our church food bank (and therefore my siblings did as well).

My parent's did not have the money to purchase the fancy calculators - so if we wanted the ones with more functions, we purchased this from our own savings. If we lost a piece of athletic equipment, there was not money to replace it. I lost my softball glove at a family event when I was 9, I got a new one the following Christmas.

So how do you teach your kids these values? Do you have a religious belief around fasting? Can you talk about what that feels like and why are you doing it? Choices - what is the cost of eating out at a restaurant? What is the cost of eating at home? What would that difference mean to a family living in poverty - and find a charity to donate it to.

If these become common events and conversations, you create a base of understanding. Do not wait until college to do alternative spring break.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:39     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:If you like reading parenting or sociology books, check out Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life.

http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Childhoods-Class-Race-Family/dp/0520271424

As someone who was raised working class and at times poor, and who is now upper middle class, I found this book spot on in describing the overwhelming strengths daily life in the middle class give your kids. It's profound how big the gulf is. That doesn't mean it's ideal. There is a benefit to some entitlement mentality (kids advocate for themselves and learn how to do so as adults), but it can obviously go too far (and does). There is a lot to be said for some parenting techniques used by poor parents. Kids are more creative, closer to family, don't get bored or exhausted from hyper over scheduling. My goal is to find a happy mixture for my child, which I think I'm doing pretty well at, so far.

Highly recommend the book if you like reading that sort of thing.


10:21 poster again- thanks for this link! I just ordered the book, it sounds fascinating! It reminds me of a PBS documentary I saw years ago called 'People Like Us'.
Anonymous
Post 04/07/2013 10:36     Subject: If you grew up poor, do you wish your kids did too?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not to the extent that you are talking about, but I did not grow up with a lot of luxuries. Dinner out was for bdays. Presents were special not an every day occurrence. New clothes happened in August for school. As a result if I wanted something I had to work. That meant I got a job at 14. I also understood that the way out of this lifestyle was education. I studied hard and was accepted to the IB program. Of course my parents couldn't afford college so it was on me to find a way to pay for it. Again, through studying hard and scholarships, I was able to go to a top school. I still needed 2 jobs in college to make ends meet. Many a friend wondered why I was working. But since I had been doing it for so long and it was all I knew, it was not until much later in life that it dawned.on me that other people didn't have jobs in college.

So while I would not want that lifestyle for my kids, I do want them to have a work ethic and know that money doesn't grow on trees. I think the way to teach that is to make the kids accountable and responsible. They need to learn the value of a dollar and what it takes to earn it.


This is me, exactly, except I had three jobs in college. ^^^^ Barely middle class in a Midwestern state. Not poverty, but very close to the national poverty line for a family of 5.

I respectfully disagree with this PP, a little bit, and kind of get what OP is asking. (Useful to have been poor?)

As difficult as times were (sometimes), I absolutely believe the experience built great character and -- my point, finally -- it created a can-do-anything attitude in me and my sibs that I frankly do not see much "in these parts." My kid is growing up in these parts, in affluence, and I would say more resembles the neighbors from Bergen County/Bethesda/Lower Merion Township than my family of origin. I'm ambivalent about that.


10:19 poster here. I totally get what you're saying. I think part of the problem around here is that not only do children grow up with a lot of money/affluence, but they're surrounded by affluence. The perspective they develop is way off, meaning what they view as "poverty" is really middle class. I mean, if you read through here, if parents think an HHI of 150k is barely middle class and they're raising their kids with that view, then they're going to grow up with a very warped perspective.