Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Same here, my DD NCS alum, hardly received any guidance from her counselor. The only thing the school did during the process is to upload their profile & a personalized narrative, her transcript, ap scores, and recs. We as a family worked on her applications, made suggestions to her on essay prompts that would really emphasize who she is and helped her to discover the types of schools that would potentially be a pretty good fit. Also, I read some books on how the college admission process works. She applied to her schools during regular decision and was accepted at a few ivies and several highly selective LACs. NCS didn't contact any of the colleges that she applied to for feedback (DD was told this in around February by her counselor). Some of the girls that the school showcased as their very best, we learned, was provided this courtesy whether they applied early/regular decision. Glad we didn't assume the counselor was a strong advocate for our daughter.

To be fair, the "recs" would include the long, in-depth school counselor rec. If it were not a good one, your daughter might not have had as good results, reasonable to say?

Not sure why you've got the bitterness that you seem to have, and the sense of competition towards other girls in your daughter's class that you seem to be exhibiting, given her terrific results?

Incorrect, the recs were from two teachers. The counselor and admin assistant at the time explained exactly what was being sent. The school submits their profile and a narrative on each girl based upon the answers from a questionnaire submitted by each student & their family. The counselor

No bitterness just being honest.

*meant to say: The counselor's knowledge of my daughter (and I'm assuming many others, as well) was based upon what her recs stated and from the responses on her questionnaire.

^^^ I'm 12:04 with the long post about how you can do it yourself, and I agree these are good reasons for hiring a private counselor! Combing through College Confidential, heck, even sticking your toe in it, takes time. If your kid won't sit down for as long as it takes to write a good essay, and you have thousands of $ to pay a counselor to sit with him, well I wouldn't say this is a great reason, but it's a good reason to hire a counselor.

I am a private college counselor myself and found this thread to be interesting. Here are some points to think about:

-Hiring a private college counselor is not a necessity for anyone. It is a service that people use to make their lives easier and improve their chances of admission. I absolutely believe that a parent with enough time, self-motivation, etc can really learn up on the college process and fully educate himself about it, and then help his own child through the process. The reality though is that many parents just don't have the time to devote to it... and I think the key is that a lot of background research needs to be done *before* one can start helping one's own child, because things have changed SO much since all of us applied to college. Honestly, it's no different than hiring a cleaning lady, landscaper, outsourcing a birthday cake to a bakery, giving our kids private tennis lessons, whatever - these are all services that we have the option of using to make our lives as parents easier. None of them are necessary.

-I have noticed that a pretty high number of my clients essentially use me for what I refer to as "babysitting." They do not want to do ANYTHING with their kids at home, they do not want to enforce having their kids do homework for me, and so I have to go to their house and sit there for five hours each week while little Johnny works on all of his essay drafts. These are the people that end up paying a huge bill at the end. It would be so easy to just sit home with Johnny, do the essay drafts, and come to me for revisions and help... and so much cheaper. However, it's their choice and if this is how they want to spend their money, more power to them. And the truth is, I guess if I had a senior in high school and an extra 10k to blow (which I do not, by the way, but if I did..) - maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to just wash my hands of it and let a professional take over and do everything. Kind of like hiring a wedding planner.

- I can't emphasize this enough, but in order to really get your full value from a private counselor, you need to trust them and follow their advice. I have had a few clients with overbearing parents, where Mom steps in and doesn't like the changes I suggested for Junior's essay and then changes everything back. Well- fine- but you can't sit there and claim that my help was not effective if you did not give me the opportunity. I assure you that I know what I am doing. Same thing with choice of college list, whether to apply early or not, etc. I really believe that some people want to hire me to tell them that they are right, not give them my actual opinion. As a rule, I have found that the VAST majority of people think that their kids' essays are absolutely brilliant when in fact they are not and they need a lot of editing. It shocks me, because these are kids with good grades from good schools - and I just don't understand how they produce such poor written work.

-The number one thing is that the student's transcript and SAT scores are so much more important than anything else. A great essay and all the community service in the world is not going to get your kid with a 1300 into Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Agree that college admissions is mostly about the student's record -- but the admissions file does include teacher recommendations, which actually play a fairly large role by all accounts. Perhaps the college counselor did not provide much useful guidance, but I'm sure the good recommendations from teachers that knew your kids well were helpful in the process.

Yes, our kids had many wonderful teachers to whom we are very grateful -- particularly those who offered to write recommendations. And, most important, the kids were very well prepared for college. Of course it goes without saying that the kids put in the effort that earned the respect of those teachers and resulted in their readiness for college. IME, however, the school's college counseling program was not a significant factor in the college application process or outcome. Many parents of younger kids believe that an independent school offers a great advantage in this regard, but at our kids' school, this wasn't the case.

I asked this question on the College forum about a year ago. DC is at a large public with overwhelmed counselors. (DC and sibling have also been in private schools, which is why I come here, before anyone jumps on me.) My biggest concerns were that (1) things had changed so much since our day that we wouldn't be able to help DC figure out a realistic set of schools to apply to, or (2) that we'd miss something key like SAT subject tests.

The answer I got was that counselors can be helpful to families where communication is breaking down under all the stress. DC is refusing to focus, or DC insists on applying only to HYP, and such.

You can do this without a private counselor - we did. You just need to do your own research so you have realistic expectations and understand new requirements (those SAT subject tests again). Going it alone worked for us - DC got into DC's first choice, an ivy (lots of credit due to DC for great grades and ECs). If you start spring of junior year (about now...) you can figure out the lay of the land on College Confidential and Naviance. That way, you can use these confidentially, so to speak. Instead of spending a panicky night before some deadline, you can gradually, over the summer, help DC consider different colleges and weigh various options. The trick is being all ready to help when DC is finally ready to focus

Go to collegeconfidential.com and read the recent "results" threads for the various colleges, to see who gets into and who is rejected from different colleges. Go on Naviance (if you have it) to see who got in from your school and with what GPA and SAT (Naviance works best if you also know who was recruited for athletics or had other hooks, which Naviance won't tell you). Read books about admissions, maybe starting with the hilarious, but helpful, Crazy U by a local reporter. Honestly, a college counselor is unlikely to have better info than this, unless they actually worked in admissions in your first choice school very recently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Same here, my DD NCS alum, hardly received any guidance from her counselor. The only thing the school did during the process is to upload their profile & a personalized narrative, her transcript, ap scores, and recs. We as a family worked on her applications, made suggestions to her on essay prompts that would really emphasize who she is and helped her to discover the types of schools that would potentially be a pretty good fit. Also, I read some books on how the college admission process works. She applied to her schools during regular decision and was accepted at a few ivies and several highly selective LACs. NCS didn't contact any of the colleges that she applied to for feedback (DD was told this in around February by her counselor). Some of the girls that the school showcased as their very best, we learned, was provided this courtesy whether they applied early/regular decision. Glad we didn't assume the counselor was a strong advocate for our daughter.

To be fair, the "recs" would include the long, in-depth school counselor rec. If it were not a good one, your daughter might not have had as good results, reasonable to say?

Not sure why you've got the bitterness that you seem to have, and the sense of competition towards other girls in your daughter's class that you seem to be exhibiting, given her terrific results?

Incorrect, the recs were from two teachers. The counselor and admin assistant at the time explained exactly what was being sent. The school submits their profile and a narrative on each girl based upon the answers from a questionnaire submitted by each student & their family. The counselor

No bitterness just being honest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Same here, my DD NCS alum, hardly received any guidance from her counselor. The only thing the school did during the process is to upload their profile & a personalized narrative, her transcript, ap scores, and recs. We as a family worked on her applications, made suggestions to her on essay prompts that would really emphasize who she is and helped her to discover the types of schools that would potentially be a pretty good fit. Also, I read some books on how the college admission process works. She applied to her schools during regular decision and was accepted at a few ivies and several highly selective LACs. NCS didn't contact any of the colleges that she applied to for feedback (DD was told this in around February by her counselor). Some of the girls that the school showcased as their very best, we learned, was provided this courtesy whether they applied early/regular decision. Glad we didn't assume the counselor was a strong advocate for our daughter.

To be fair, the "recs" would include the long, in-depth school counselor rec. If it were not a good one, your daughter might not have had as good results, reasonable to say?

Not sure why you've got the bitterness that you seem to have, and the sense of competition towards other girls in your daughter's class that you seem to be exhibiting, given her terrific results?

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Same here, my DD NCS alum, hardly received any guidance from her counselor. The only thing the school did during the process is to upload their profile & a personalized narrative, her transcript, ap scores, and recs. We as a family worked on her applications, made suggestions to her on essay prompts that would really emphasize who she is and helped her to discover the types of schools that would potentially be a pretty good fit. Also, I read some books on how the college admission process works. She applied to her schools during regular decision and was accepted at a few ivies and several highly selective LACs. NCS didn't contact any of the colleges that she applied to for feedback (DD was told this in around February by her counselor). Some of the girls that the school showcased as their very best, we learned, was provided this courtesy whether they applied early/regular decision. Glad we didn't assume the counselor was a strong advocate for our daughter.

I am in the midst of this at an independent (not big three) for one child. In my view, the primary benefit of either the schoool counselor or an outsider if you go that route is how well they know the schools -- and your kid -- to help assess fit. Yes, there are lots of books and web sites and we do a lot of research, but it is overwhelming and when you get beyond that stats drilling down into how things work, which schools you should visit given limited time, etc., that is where I see counselors should be most helpful if they are good at their jobs. The school counselors should also do a better job at handicapping admissions odds than the books b/c they know how kids at their schools have done in past years (Naviance type info) but also whether specific kids had hooks etc. to give a better perspective. If a counselor can't do those things, then they aren't adding much value. beyond paper work.

Anonymous wrote:Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

Agree that college admissions is mostly about the student's record -- but the admissions file does include teacher recommendations, which actually play a fairly large role by all accounts. Perhaps the college counselor did not provide much useful guidance, but I'm sure the good recommendations from teachers that knew your kids well were helpful in the process.

Anonymous wrote:Some schools like Sidwell begin the process junior year. There is a special class where kids start to think about what they might want in a college, et cetera.

For most kids, the workshops are a waste of time -- endless discussion of rural v. urban campuses is not necessary. The school would do better to put the resources into individual counseling sessions.

Our kids' Big 3 counselor provided very little guidance. What little guidance the counselor did offer was pretty useless because she didn't know them very well. We put together a list of schools to visit and to apply to on our own. Our kids, very reasonably, didn't want us to look at their essays. Fortunately, we were able to ask a family friend with extensive professional experience as a writer and editor to look over the essays and give them some feedback (they didn't need a lot). The director of admissions at my alma mater (to which the kids were not applying) was also very kind in responding to specific questions we had regarding recomendations. It all worked out for our kids, but the credit should go to them, not the school.

That said, I wouldn't recommend hiring a private counselor. I know only 1 family (from a public school) who hired a counselor and there didn't seem to be much that she contributed beyond what the parents and kid already knew. They drew up their own list of schools to visit and apply to based on a little research and common sense. (Fiske is a good place to start, then you can noodle around on websites. Naviance is largely a waste of time IMHO.) Their son rejected the counselor's advice -- she didn't know him and wanted to totally re-shape his essay. It sounded like a waste of time and money.

We have DC from a Big 3 who went to an Ivy who did all this without much input from the school counselor and zero from private counselors. In my view, it is really up to the parents to guide the process, as much as kids - and school counselors - may say that the kids should do it themselves. School counselors have several jobs to do, and these jobs aren't always going to align with the best interests of your DC.

OP, think about what you think outside counselors will provide. If it is "where should we apply" that info is largely public, and you should just do some research. I've never seen Fisk guide, but hear good things about it. If it is "write an additional recommendation or use some other pull," well, I'd not really believe it to help at top colleges. If it is "help DC write a decent application" - by which you really mean essay - I'm amazed at all the places that you can pay to help with this, including summer camps at local area school (did I see it at Bullis?). As you can tell, I am not sure there is much value to the outside counselors, just as I'm not sure how much value the college counselors at school really add to individual applications. (The exception is if they offer writing sessions and editing, as our school does on weekends, and you can't get your kid to show it to you.)

Some schools like Sidwell begin the process junior year. There is a special class where kids start to think about what they might want in a college, et cetera.

The private school counselors (and in one school the English teachers in addition) read the essays and provide feedback, and they knew our DD's far better than some paid outside consultant who meets a kid once or twice and then is supposed to give input. One friend who is an Ivy admissions reader says she can spot the college consultant-written or "enhanced" essays a mile away, and they are an immediate turnoff