Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

Not sure what you mean by this in this context. Also, no one "runs around screaming, 'THERE IS NO GOD'"

Are you sure the atheists are calling you stupid because you're a believer, and not for some other reason?

Again with the eye roll. So puerile.

I didn't say I am a "believer." But, yeah, if you spend much time on DCUM reading the ranting atheist phrases, there are a fair number who spend an ordinate amount of time arguing that there is no God. Which is just really obnoxious and sanctimonious behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

You mean like the religious person who pops into a thread that's clearly about Atheism, and screams BUT LOOK AT MEEEEE!

Religious people whining about atheists speaking up, is like a man complaining about women speaking up - they're both speaking from a place of immense privilege.

I think the point is atheists have no reason to speak up. You don't believe in God, so why even have the conversation. Because if you do, you're trying to convince or convert someone else's way of thinking and that makes you worse than the religious person who prosthelytizes because, unlike the religious person, you don't actually hold a belief. You have no call to action. And thus, you have nothing of value to say.

Atheists have no reason to speak up?!

You do realize that we live in the US, where there is a significant portion of the population that is attempting to de-legitimize the beliefs and choices of either the non-religious, or differently religious, by forcing everyone to adopt their beliefs?

Atheism is not the lack of belief - or the lack of call to action. I act, because my mere humanity is enough to compel me - not because I'm looking for a selfish reward or benefit. I give, because my giving is enough - I'm not looking for an afterlife. But because what there is here, what is needed here in this life, is sufficient for me. I do, because I believe in people and doing for people.

You are mistaking atheists speaking up as somehow proselytizing - my opinion about my worldview is not yours. I'm not telling you what to do, or how to act, or how to believe. That is yours. Do you understand that there is a difference between discussing ideas, and forcing everyone to adopt your beliefs? Am I forcing you to not go to church/synagogue/mosque/etc? Am I forcing you to get married to someone of the same sex? Am I requiring you to have an abortion? Am I mandating that you say "there is no god" in the pledge of allegiance? Please do give one example of an atheist or non-religious person making it compulsory that you actively not have your faith. Just one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

You mean like the religious person who pops into a thread that's clearly about Atheism, and screams BUT LOOK AT MEEEEE!

Religious people whining about atheists speaking up, is like a man complaining about women speaking up - they're both speaking from a place of immense privilege.

I think the point is atheists have no reason to speak up. You don't believe in God, so why even have the conversation. Because if you do, you're trying to convince or convert someone else's way of thinking and that makes you worse than the religious person who prosthelytizes because, unlike the religious person, you don't actually hold a belief. You have no call to action. And thus, you have nothing of value to say.

Nonsense. And you're trolling. Just in case you're wondering why people don't respond warmly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

You mean like the religious person who pops into a thread that's clearly about Atheism, and screams BUT LOOK AT MEEEEE!

Religious people whining about atheists speaking up, is like a man complaining about women speaking up - they're both speaking from a place of immense privilege.

I think the point is atheists have no reason to speak up. You don't believe in God, so why even have the conversation. Because if you do, you're trying to convince or convert someone else's way of thinking and that makes you worse than the religious person who prosthelytizes because, unlike the religious person, you don't actually hold a belief. You have no call to action. And thus, you have nothing of value to say.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question for atheists: What do you tell your children when they ask what happens when you die? That their body will be put into the ground to push up daisies? Because being atheist obviously precludes talk of Heaven, souls, or any other comforting notions.

I tell them what happens to the body of a deceased person or animal.

If I can see that they are searching for a deeper answer, I tell the truth: that nobody knows.

I tell them that they live in our memory, and that their body turns into trees, flowers, grass, etc...

It's every bit as comforting as telling kids the deceased are in Heaven (a place which only really good people get to go to), or that they turn into a "soul". And it has the added benefit of being truthful.

It is impossible for you to know the truth about life after death.

It is equally impossible for there to be such a thing as justice without eternity.

It is equally impossible that "justice" is actually achievable. It's a sad realization for some, but it brings me more comfort to accept reality as "that's how things are" than live on borrowed hope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question for atheists: What do you tell your children when they ask what happens when you die? That their body will be put into the ground to push up daisies? Because being atheist obviously precludes talk of Heaven, souls, or any other comforting notions.

I tell them what happens to the body of a deceased person or animal.

If I can see that they are searching for a deeper answer, I tell the truth: that nobody knows.

I tell them that they live in our memory, and that their body turns into trees, flowers, grass, etc...

It's every bit as comforting as telling kids the deceased are in Heaven (a place which only really good people get to go to), or that they turn into a "soul". And it has the added benefit of being truthful.

It is impossible for you to know the truth about life after death.

It is equally impossible for there to be such a thing as justice without eternity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question for atheists: What do you tell your children when they ask what happens when you die? That their body will be put into the ground to push up daisies? Because being atheist obviously precludes talk of Heaven, souls, or any other comforting notions.

I tell them what happens to the body of a deceased person or animal.

If I can see that they are searching for a deeper answer, I tell the truth: that nobody knows.

I tell them that they live in our memory, and that their body turns into trees, flowers, grass, etc...

It's every bit as comforting as telling kids the deceased are in Heaven (a place which only really good people get to go to), or that they turn into a "soul". And it has the added benefit of being truthful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

Not sure what you mean by this in this context. Also, no one "runs around screaming, 'THERE IS NO GOD'"

Are you sure the atheists are calling you stupid because you're a believer, and not for some other reason?

Anonymous wrote:Genuine question for atheists: What do you tell your children when they ask what happens when you die? That their body will be put into the ground to push up daisies? Because being atheist obviously precludes talk of Heaven, souls, or any other comforting notions.

I tell them what happens to the body of a deceased person or animal.

If I can see that they are searching for a deeper answer, I tell the truth: that nobody knows.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

You mean like the religious person who pops into a thread that's clearly about Atheism, and screams BUT LOOK AT MEEEEE!

Religious people whining about atheists speaking up, is like a man complaining about women speaking up - they're both speaking from a place of immense privilege.

Exactly. Even the topic of this thread could be interpreted as being offensive to non-believers. depending on the context. It reminds me of the periodical threads that start up here saying, for example, "If you don't believe in God, how can you teach your kids right from wrong?"

To someone steeped in religious tradition, it seems a reasonable question. To someone who's just going about their life, it seems "fuck off" would be a curt, but not unreasonable response.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

These people don't exist, other than in your own head. I think you're confusing DCUM for real life. Here on DCUM, absolutely, if you start some thread about how the Christian God is super-duper awesome, you're probably going to get some people who enjoy debating this stuff. And when you start making irrational claims, you're going to get some pushback from rational people.

Finally, I think a lot of Christians (and people of other faiths) don't understand how insulting they're being when they trot out certain articles. For example, that you can't be "moral" without "God" or other claims. If you start making offensive claims on a public, anonymous forum, most likely you'll be met with insults.

Anyway, take God out of the equation, and people behave in just the same way. Could be god, could be suburbs/city, could be CIO/attachment.

(I do think it's a bit rich, though, that you think there's an equivalence between a) a devout believer who honestly believes in God and Hell, and who tells someone that they will be tortured for eternity for their crime of disbelief; and b) someone who honestly doesn't believe in Hell, and who doesn't believe there are any rational reasons to believe in God or Hell, telling you you're "stupid" for believing in them. The latter is rude, but the former is frankly disgusting.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?

You mean like the religious person who pops into a thread that's clearly about Atheism, and screams BUT LOOK AT MEEEEE!

Religious people whining about atheists speaking up, is like a man complaining about women speaking up - they're both speaking from a place of immense privilege.

There is no god and I DO think you're stupid, but I am generally polite enough to withhold these comments. The only harm in you being religious is to yourself- whereas religious people are trying to save my soul or some shit by forcing their believes upon me.

Anonymous wrote:Part of being an atheist is not having to focus my whole life around it, so I generally don't talk or think about my lack of agreeing with your religious beliefs.

Exactly. About once a year, I get dragged into a long theological debate on DCUM. But that's about it. Religion just doesn' have any sort of major (or minor) part in my life. Since the devout folks on the other side of the argument *live* for this kind of stuff, I'm sure it seems like there are "evangelical" atheists out there. But I assure you, most of the time we don't think about it much at all. Unless some godly folks are trying to impose their creed on the rest of us w/o any rational reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing more obnoxious than an evangelical religious observer is an evangelical atheist.

Sure, why not:

evangelical christian: "You must believe in Jesus, otherwise you're going to Hell."

evangelical atheist: "People should be allowed to believe what they want, but if you're going to try to make laws, you'd better have a damned rational reason."

Totally the same thing.

Um, no. Not even remotely the same thing. An evangelical atheist runs around screaming, "THERE IS NO GOD" and telling people who believe there is one that they're stupid. That's just as bad, if not worse, than telling someone they'll go to hell.

What you describe is moral relativism. That's different.

Oh, and don't roll your eyes at me. What are you, 12?