Anonymous wrote:I recently had a conversation with my 15yo about rape and consent, based on this letter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/ask-amy-teen-victim-looks-for-answers/2013/02/15/e6791910-7793-11e2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_story.html

I read him the letter and asked him if he thought it was rape and he said yes. We then talked about confusing signals, how any confusion means no, and how anyone influenced by drugs/alcohol is not capable of saying yes. We also talked about how it is not just a question of a girl not saying "no," that she must fully and clearly say YES. Anything less = back off.
It came up again last night for some reason, and we talked about how if you are in a situation where, like this girl, you *cannot* speak up and be clear, and are uncomfortable doing so, well then you should not be intimate with that person to begin with - that discomfort like that is a signal that you should not be in that situation.

THANK YOU. Why do we assume, in this country, that a woman's default state is "I clearly want to bone that guy"? And that is something that needs to be overcome by her saying "no"? The burden shouldn't be on the woman to disprove that she wanted to fuck some guy. The burden should be on the guy to establish that she affirmatively wants to have sex with him.

I recently had a conversation with my 15yo about rape and consent, based on this letter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/ask-amy-teen-victim-looks-for-answers/2013/02/15/e6791910-7793-11e2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_story.html

I read him the letter and asked him if he thought it was rape and he said yes. We then talked about confusing signals, how any confusion means no, and how anyone influenced by drugs/alcohol is not capable of saying yes. We also talked about how it is not just a question of a girl not saying "no," that she must fully and clearly say YES. Anything less = back off.

It came up again last night for some reason, and we talked about how if you are in a situation where, like this girl, you *cannot* speak up and be clear, and are uncomfortable doing so, well then you should not be intimate with that person to begin with - that discomfort like that is a signal that you should not be in that situation.

Anonymous wrote:In Maryland, a drunk person cannot give legal consent to sex. It is always rape.

This is bizarre to me. What if both people are drunk? Should they both be charged?

In Maryland, a drunk person cannot give legal consent to sex. It is always rape.

Anonymous wrote:What about the racial component to this story? I have a hard time believing that doesn't come into play.

And how did these kids get all this alcohol?? Why isn't anybody being held responsible? Where we're the parents while these parties were being held?

Where were the parents? These teenagers were 16 and 17 years old. Did you expect the parents to follow them around all night? Do you have 16 year olds? Are you with them all of the time?

Stupid argument.

Racial component? Girl was white. One defendant is black and one is white.

Anonymous wrote:What about the racial component to this story? I have a hard time believing that doesn't come into play.

And how did these kids get all this alcohol?? Why isn't anybody being held responsible? Where we're the parents while these parties were being held?

What about the racial component? And what about the whole "where were the parents" thing? An opinion or fact relating to any of those things doesn't make the girl any less raped. The question here is whether these boys forced sex acts upon her when she was unable to consent. And frankly, there's not much of a question about that. They're getting their due process.

What about the racial component to this story? I have a hard time believing that doesn't come into play.

And how did these kids get all this alcohol?? Why isn't anybody being held responsible? Where we're the parents while these parties were being held?

Look, I drank heavily throughout my teen and college years. I did a lot of stupid things, including hooking up with guys I definitely should not have. And this story is WAY passed anything that could be classified as "dumb things drunk people do." There is no question these boys should be punished. And if my boys EVER did something like this I would be the one locking the prison cell door.

Anonymous wrote:A very important lesson from this is also if you see something going wrong with your peers, you should step in. Stand up for the person who's being hurt before... and especially after.

No matter what, no one deserves to be humiliated or treated badly, much less raped.

I just saw the video (wrote the above before seeing it). There are indeed different claims being made here. It needs to go to a court of law, for sure.

A good takeaway: DON'T DO JACK WITH SOMEONE UNDERAGE, DRINKING, OR YOU DON'T KNOW WELL.

Why have the names of all involved been released? Aren't the boys accused here minors? And the victim? Seems like all of their names shouldn't be out there. Any attorneys care to educate me on the law?

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, sounds as if most of you posters never went to college....people did stupid stuff all the time and regretted it later all as a result of drinking too much.

Teach your kids to be smart, use their heads, and drink responsibly.

I don't know where y went to college, but stupid stuff drunk college did when I was an undergrad did NOT include raping a girl who was unconscious. Stupid stuff included things like losing your keys, saying silling things, dancing badly--not rape. If you cannot see the difference between the two I feel sorry for you and your kids.

A very important lesson from this is also if you see something going wrong with your peers, you should step in. Stand up for the person who's being hurt before... and especially after.

No matter what, no one deserves to be humiliated or treated badly, much less raped.

Hmm, sounds as if most of you posters never went to college....people did stupid stuff all the time and regretted it later all as a result of drinking too much.

Teach your kids to be smart, use their heads, and drink responsibly.

Anonymous wrote:http://gma.yahoo.com/steubenville-rape-case-havent-heard-050751050--abc-news-topstories.html

I take away two lessons that I will be instilling in my son.

1) Never share pictures/videos online without the other person's permission.

2) Never hook up with a girl who is drunk.

The second one is a bit strange for me - what do you all think (especially moms of boys)? I hooked up with guys all the time in college when I was drunk. But, having a son, makes me think a bit differently about consent issues.

This is all you take away from tbis? "Boys will be boys," just don't let anyone take pic of you and, fone, rape an unconscious girl. It is too bad that every person involved with this aren't being tried as an adult and spend the next 30 years in prison. How about teachi.g your son to have respect for all females and to keep his pants zipped and his hands to himself. I hope these two get scewered.

Anonymous wrote:I have two sons. I learned nothing from this example. I will teach them that if a woman wants to be intimate with you, she'll still want to be when sober. If she doesn't want to when she's sober than you surely don't want to when she's drunk.

Yes, exactly.

This is not a gray-area case. You don't need insider info to know that--all you need is a basic sense of right and wrong to see that. I suggest parents of boys worry less about their children committing rape (which very few men do) and worry more about your child--male or female--being like way too many people and idly standing by while a horror like this unfolds. There are evil people who prey on the vulnerable (i.e., drunk) and there is little to be done about them. What parents need to do is make sure their kids, if witness to a rape, have the fortitude and decency to try and stop it or call for law enforcement to intervene.