OP again.

So my DH told me he sent the article to me from the Atlantic months ago. Oops. He also pointed out the real news in that ranking was that in all of the top 4-5 countries-- teachers are all from the top 20% of their graduating class and get paid big salaries (emphasis on teacher quality and compensation to attract top teachers; teaching is revered--high status). "The rest of those stats seems like [insert fruity Aunt's name here] designed the curriculum for her socialist paradise which I am sure works great for a homogenous country of only 5 mil".

Ha! I still agree with the delaying the tracking of kids into gifted and early play-based pre-school education.

Finland is a really imperfect comparison:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

Do these other countries have universal, compulsory education?

It's a great system if you are average smart. If you're off the charts smart, you're still stuck with the average college-bound kids. If you're a bit behind those folks, you're set on a track for a trade school and not given coursework that will prepare you for a college.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting. I find all this fascinating. I do think the reasons are more complex than you'd assume at first look.
Finland and South Korea were called education powerhouses and world leaders in education, yet their systems are so different. One relaxed, one test driven. And the UK is number six - not bad either, and they have a very diverse population with many challenges (ESOL, etc), so that might be a country to compare with as well...

I think that it is always good to look at what other countries are doing, and that has nothing to do whatsoever with patriotism although some always want to inject that into these discussions.

So true! +1

Thanks for posting. I find all this fascinating. I do think the reasons are more complex than you'd assume at first look.
Finland and South Korea were called education powerhouses and world leaders in education, yet their systems are so different. One relaxed, one test driven. And the UK is number six - not bad either, and they have a very diverse population with many challenges (ESOL, etc), so that might be a country to compare with as well...

I think that it is always good to look at what other countries are doing, and that has nothing to do whatsoever with patriotism although some always want to inject that into these discussions.

Ninety-five percent of the teachers are unionized in Finland.

Learning to read and spell in Finnish is easy. It is a phonetic language where the sounds of the letters don't change depending on what letter is grouped with another letter and the position of the letter in the word. English is a really difficult language to learn how to read and spell. They don't have spelling bees in Finland because everyone is a great speller after a year of school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go rent 'waiting for superman' and tell me if you think the American model is winning.

A good education, therefore, is not ruled out by poverty, uneducated parents or crime - and drug-infested neighborhoods. In fact, those are the very areas where Geoffrey Canada has success with his charter schools.

I love how two of the pps want to just remove our inner city and poor kids from our Education statistics. Sure. We'll just continue to ignore that population instead of reforming the education system itself.

I also wouldn't be so certain US would rise to the top by self-selecting a tiny population.

I'm just curious if you applied any critical thinking to your evaluation of "Waiting for Superman."

Do you know who produced it and what their (financial) motive is?

It's basically propaganda for the charter school movement and a knee-jerk attack on teachers' unions. It's basically right-wing propaganda to privatize public schools. Bullshit.

It sure is helping in the inner cities. Check out what is happening in New Orleans and other places...the public system is failing way too many currently.

Crap teachers are rewarded for crap performance. Teacher Unions have monoplized for too long. Those poor, poor teachers in Chicago--they were really thinking about the kids and families when they shut down the entire system for over a week ...and are already some of the highest paid anywhere in the US. 350,0 kids out of school for over 1 week...working parents with nowhwere to take them. For many kids it was the only place they got a meal. Yea- teacher unions! Bunch of professionals.

Anonymous wrote:Go rent 'waiting for superman' and tell me if you think the American model is winning.

A good education, therefore, is not ruled out by poverty, uneducated parents or crime - and drug-infested neighborhoods. In fact, those are the very areas where Geoffrey Canada has success with his charter schools.

I love how two of the pps want to just remove our inner city and poor kids from our Education statistics. Sure. We'll just continue to ignore that population instead of reforming the education system itself.

I also wouldn't be so certain US would rise to the top by self-selecting a tiny population.

I'm just curious if you applied any critical thinking to your evaluation of "Waiting for Superman."

Do you know who produced it and what their (financial) motive is?

It's basically propaganda for the charter school movement and a knee-jerk attack on teachers' unions. It's basically right-wing propaganda to privatize public schools. Bullshit.

Good lord. Nobody even read the god-damn list. I am as big of a Patriot as the rest of you--I am willing to look into ways to fix a failing system.

God forbid, we open our minds a little bit when clearly our own system has been failing for so long...kind of like health care, you think?

Thanks, pp.

Further--
Good lord. Nobody even read the god-damn list. I am as big of a Patriot as the rest of you--I am willing to look into ways to fix a failing system.

God forbid, we open our minds a little bit when clearly our own system has been failing for so long...kind of like health care, you think?

Anonymous wrote:Of course, some of it is funny...

"Finnish schools vary so little because the schools have the same curriculum".

ummmm--maybe it is also because the Finnish socio-economic/language population also varies so little from school-to-school.

The rest is pretty interesting though. I have heard over and over about play-based learning in the early years. Second child is going that route. First child was in a more academic setting.

I thought that at first, too. Actually, the population in Finland is more diverse than you would expect with a growing influx of immigrants from Bangladesh, Iraq, Russia and parts of Africa. In one of the Finnish schools that has been successful, half of the population came from somewhere else. You can read the article here.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html?c=y&page=1

Does Finland have affirmative action?

I'm guessing that Finland also doesn't have a huge gap between the haves and the have nots, that the economy is oriented towards alleviating poverty and people see it as a responsibility to provide for all.