Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 21:42     Subject: Breakaway school district
This is the way charter operators think too.

Anonymous wrote:Although very inartfully put, the OP raises a serious issue. Unfortunately on this board (and in the DCPS administration), the prevailing opinion seems to be that no non-poor student should be a priority until all poor students' needs are met.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 18:39     Subject: Breakaway school district
^^^ yes! This is the more serious problem in dcps. Even more than perceived equity. Start offering a quality education for all students rather than an equally awful one and we may get somewhere.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 17:36     Subject: Breakaway school district
One problem you have with using these measures is that in the poorer wards parents have been leaving DCPS and moving their kids into PCS, while the WOTP wards have full schools, because they succeed. Parents in bad schools don't want to stay put, while parents in good ones do. That leaves occupancy/vacancy-related skews on per-pupil space and spending.



Agree. The per pupil formula is skewed because in schools with low enrollment- whether students opt out or because of capacity constraints (like Walls), it simply takes more money to fund those HS (or MS or ES) than a school like Wilson which will have a large budget and offer a lot because it has a lot of students and therefore a larger budget. What the city desperately needs is better MS and HS options- more magnets and special options that work for all wards. Deal and Wilson are over capacity and it looks like their boundaries will be changed because of overcrowding. Walls is over capacity and is merging with FSES even though that gives the HS almost no room for growth. It's just to make one budget and share positions between schools. DCPS is just putting out short term solutions to stop people moving to PCS but until there is no long term plan to address ALL the needs, it won't improve.

I understand OP wanting to breakaway because even if you are in a ward with good schools, you still have to deal with DCPS, and it is a perpetual challenge to make sure your child receives a quality education.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 17:29     Subject: Breakaway school district
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^ this. And anyone who raises this issue is immediately accused of racism due to the extensive overlap of the underprivileged in DC and the AA community.

It's not racist to want to see your tax dollars put to a use that you value.


Maybe not, but it's selfish and incompatible with good governance. Tax dollars get used for public good, not what you individually value. Individuals don't get to pick what their specific tax dollars get used on. Your only influence on how tax dollars are spent is your vote. Other than that, you don't get to pick and choose how they're distributed. And when it comes to DCPS they're distributed pretty equitably or at least rationally.


This is why so many people can and do vote with their feet.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 17:23     Subject: Breakaway school district
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Data from 21 Century regarding middle schools from a few years ago

Per pupil budgeting from lowest to highest:
Ward – Budget/pupil - School
6 – $5,870 - Stuart-Hobson
2 – $6,497 - Hardy
3 – $6,602 - Deal
6 – $6,756 - Jefferson
8 – $6,798 - Hart
6 – $6,833 - Eliot-Hine
7 – $6,977 - Kelly Miller
$7025 - AVERAGE
2 – $7,048 - Shaw-Garnett-Patterson
8 – $7,416 - Kramer
4 – $7,661 - MacFarland
7 – $7,828 - Ron Brown-Merritt
7 – $7,945 - Sousa
8 – $8,339 – Johnson

Ward – Square feet per pupil
3 - 143ft
2 - 271 ft
6 - 273 ft
4 - 275 ft
7 - 284 ft
8 - 289 ft
1 - 309 ft
5 - 373 ft

Ward – Capital spending/pupil
4 – 9,931
7 – 12,921
1 – 15,151
8 – 15,970
3 – 18,364
6 – 18,787
5 – 29,267
2 – 35,938


One problem you have with using these measures is that in the poorer wards parents have been leaving DCPS and moving their kids into PCS, while the WOTP wards have full schools, because they succeed. Parents in bad schools don't want to stay put, while parents in good ones do. That leaves occupancy/vacancy-related skews on per-pupil space and spending.

That does not disqualify the point, rather it makes the point. Schools with stronger students are usually less expensive to run and usually more more sought after.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 17:14     Subject: Breakaway school district
Anonymous wrote:Data from 21 Century regarding middle schools from a few years ago

Per pupil budgeting from lowest to highest:
Ward – Budget/pupil - School
6 – $5,870 - Stuart-Hobson
2 – $6,497 - Hardy
3 – $6,602 - Deal
6 – $6,756 - Jefferson
8 – $6,798 - Hart
6 – $6,833 - Eliot-Hine
7 – $6,977 - Kelly Miller
$7025 - AVERAGE
2 – $7,048 - Shaw-Garnett-Patterson
8 – $7,416 - Kramer
4 – $7,661 - MacFarland
7 – $7,828 - Ron Brown-Merritt
7 – $7,945 - Sousa
8 – $8,339 – Johnson

Ward – Square feet per pupil
3 - 143ft
2 - 271 ft
6 - 273 ft
4 - 275 ft
7 - 284 ft
8 - 289 ft
1 - 309 ft
5 - 373 ft

Ward – Capital spending/pupil
4 – 9,931
7 – 12,921
1 – 15,151
8 – 15,970
3 – 18,364
6 – 18,787
5 – 29,267
2 – 35,938


One problem you have with using these measures is that in the poorer wards parents have been leaving DCPS and moving their kids into PCS, while the WOTP wards have full schools, because they succeed. Parents in bad schools don't want to stay put, while parents in good ones do. That leaves occupancy/vacancy-related skews on per-pupil space and spending.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 17:06     Subject: Breakaway school district
Data from 21 Century regarding middle schools from a few years ago

Per pupil budgeting from lowest to highest:
Ward – Budget/pupil - School
6 – $5,870 - Stuart-Hobson
2 – $6,497 - Hardy
3 – $6,602 - Deal
6 – $6,756 - Jefferson
8 – $6,798 - Hart
6 – $6,833 - Eliot-Hine
7 – $6,977 - Kelly Miller
$7025 - AVERAGE
2 – $7,048 - Shaw-Garnett-Patterson
8 – $7,416 - Kramer
4 – $7,661 - MacFarland
7 – $7,828 - Ron Brown-Merritt
7 – $7,945 - Sousa
8 – $8,339 – Johnson

Ward – Square feet per pupil
3 - 143ft
2 - 271 ft
6 - 273 ft
4 - 275 ft
7 - 284 ft
8 - 289 ft
1 - 309 ft
5 - 373 ft

Ward – Capital spending/pupil
4 – 9,931
7 – 12,921
1 – 15,151
8 – 15,970
3 – 18,364
6 – 18,787
5 – 29,267
2 – 35,938
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 17:01     Subject: Breakaway school district
A free public-school education is only worthy to those who pay taxes. I am getting it.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 15:26     Subject: Re:Breakaway school district
Let's not forget that federal dollars pay for those left behind. NCLB funnels those to disadvantaged schools. Now, of course those too are tax dollars. But I'm not certain at all that the per pupil DC(!)$ spending patterns would indeed corroborate the assertion that a disadvantaged student receives more DCed$ than an advantaged on. I stand to be corrected but last time I teased this information out from the proposed budgets published by DCPS, quite the opposite is true. A student at Walls is provided with more DCed$ than a student at Anacostia high. Title I and special ed dollars come to patch up the difference. I recall there was some pretty hefty politicking after Kaya Henderson tried to rectify this situation. And Walls now has Francis-Stevens in its lap as a result, or something like that.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 15:24     Subject: Breakaway school district
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^ this. And anyone who raises this issue is immediately accused of racism due to the extensive overlap of the underprivileged in DC and the AA community.

It's not racist to want to see your tax dollars put to a use that you value.


Maybe not, but it's selfish and incompatible with good governance. Tax dollars get used for public good, not what you individually value. Individuals don't get to pick what their specific tax dollars get used on. Your only influence on how tax dollars are spent is your vote. Other than that, you don't get to pick and choose how they're distributed. And when it comes to DCPS they're distributed pretty equitably or at least rationally.


Did you write that with a straight face? When discussing DCPS or DC Council?
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 15:16     Subject: Breakaway school district
Riddle me this, would-be Ward 2, 3 (maybe) 4 district creators of a district to not serve as a "social safety net system for under privileged [sic] kids" - would the underprivileged students from the rest of DC be able to enroll in your breakaway schools?
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 14:40     Subject: Breakaway school district
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^ this. And anyone who raises this issue is immediately accused of racism due to the extensive overlap of the underprivileged in DC and the AA community.

It's not racist to want to see your tax dollars put to a use that you value.


Maybe not, but it's selfish and incompatible with good governance. Tax dollars get used for public good, not what you individually value. Individuals don't get to pick what their specific tax dollars get used on. Your only influence on how tax dollars are spent is your vote. Other than that, you don't get to pick and choose how they're distributed. And when it comes to DCPS they're distributed pretty equitably or at least rationally.


You have a future in comedy.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 14:16     Subject: Breakaway school district
Anonymous wrote:^^ this. And anyone who raises this issue is immediately accused of racism due to the extensive overlap of the underprivileged in DC and the AA community.

It's not racist to want to see your tax dollars put to a use that you value.


Maybe not, but it's selfish and incompatible with good governance. Tax dollars get used for public good, not what you individually value. Individuals don't get to pick what their specific tax dollars get used on. Your only influence on how tax dollars are spent is your vote. Other than that, you don't get to pick and choose how they're distributed. And when it comes to DCPS they're distributed pretty equitably or at least rationally.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 14:07     Subject: Breakaway school district
Anonymous wrote:Although very inartfully put, the OP raises a serious issue. Unfortunately on this board (and in the DCPS administration), the prevailing opinion seems to be that no non-poor student should be a priority until all poor students' needs are met.


+1
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2013 14:05     Subject: Breakaway school district
^^ this. And anyone who raises this issue is immediately accused of racism due to the extensive overlap of the underprivileged in DC and the AA community.

It's not racist to want to see your tax dollars put to a use that you value.