So what do you propose? Kill all of the cats? I repeat. Shit happens.

Anonymous wrote:Windmill farms are killing off our birds of prey ( dessimating the Golden Eagle) population nd no one on this board had a problem with that. Shit happens.....

Indeed. But two wrongs don't make a right. That doesn't mean it's OK to let cats who already get their two squares daily, in homes or feral colonies, continue the decimation. If you read OP's article, it gives a range of 1.4-3.7 billion birds killed each year by cats. Some estimates are even higher, the article says. This can't just be dismissed as an niche issue for "crazy bird lovers."

Windmill farms are killing off our birds of prey ( dessimating the Golden Eagle) population nd no one on this board had a problem with that. Shit happens.....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are missing the point.

You seem to think that prey should only be subjected to what it is "evolutionarily" designed to be hunted by. Are deer somehow"evoluntionarily" designed to be shot by hunters? Or should we stop shooting them because guns are not native to North America?

Birds are at risk of predation, regardless of whether they are "evolutionarily" ready or not. Evolution happens whether you like it or not.

Not a good comparison. Deer used to have natural predators - cougars, wolves, coyote and more, depending on the region - until humans killed so many of them off. That's why you see too many deer and culling efforts today.

Sure, birds are at risk for predation, by hawks, other raptors, snakes. But this brings consequences. If we let an introduced species - cats - wipe out certain bird populations, then the hawks and raptors will starve and start to die out, and then we really may get overrun by rats and mice.

You see too many deer because there are too many human beings in their natural habitat. Hawks and raptors do not live on a diet of birds.

Anonymous wrote:

You are missing the point.

You seem to think that prey should only be subjected to what it is "evolutionarily" designed to be hunted by. Are deer somehow"evoluntionarily" designed to be shot by hunters? Or should we stop shooting them because guns are not native to North America?

Birds are at risk of predation, regardless of whether they are "evolutionarily" ready or not. Evolution happens whether you like it or not.

Not a good comparison. Deer used to have natural predators - cougars, wolves, coyote and more, depending on the region - until humans killed so many of them off. That's why you see too many deer and culling efforts today.

Sure, birds are at risk for predation, by hawks, other raptors, snakes. But this brings consequences. If we let an introduced species - cats - wipe out certain bird populations, then the hawks and raptors will starve and start to die out, and then we really may get overrun by rats and mice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we were to stop predation in cats, the rodent population would spiral out of control. "Killer cats" are predator cats. They are part of the natural food chain.

Do you see all the posts in Off Topic about mice and rats? Do you not see the value of the cat as predator? Put a bell on every cat and watch your rat, mouse, and vole population spiral out of control. Look forward to mouse droppings and the wires on your car being eaten.

Ridiculous post.

Wrong, just wrong. They are not part of the natural food chain here. They are an introduced predator.

Who cares?

Because those birds pecking at the grass or teaching their babies to fly haven't evolved to deal with feline stalkers.

Give me a break. There is a pair of nesting cardinals that comes every year to my yard. They TERRORIZE my cat.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

You are missing the point.

You seem to think that prey should only be subjected to what it is "evolutionarily" designed to be hunted by. Are deer somehow"evoluntionarily" designed to be shot by hunters? Or should we stop shooting them because guns are not native to North America?

Birds are at risk of predation, regardless of whether they are "evolutionarily" ready or not. Evolution happens whether you like it or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just please, if you let your cat out, look before you open the door. I was walking my dog past a house when the neighbor did this. I nearly lost control of the leash and ended up being yanked down the street chasing after the cat. It's like the sudden appearance of a squirrel. Even the best trained dog would react.

There's something wrong here. Even the best trained dog might REACT, yes. But yank you down the street chasing after the cat? No. And you can't expect the world to adjust to your badly behaved dog. Your dog needs obedience and leash training.

My dog has passed his Canine Good Citizen test and is well trained, thank you. Having a cat suddenly appear very close by would incite any dog's prey drive. He's a large dog and very strong, hence the training in the first place and why he was able to pull me for several houses. The person didn't even look before tossing the cat out the door. No, it's not too much to ask to make sure the environment is safe before letting your cat out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we were to stop predation in cats, the rodent population would spiral out of control. "Killer cats" are predator cats. They are part of the natural food chain.

Do you see all the posts in Off Topic about mice and rats? Do you not see the value of the cat as predator? Put a bell on every cat and watch your rat, mouse, and vole population spiral out of control. Look forward to mouse droppings and the wires on your car being eaten.

Ridiculous post.

Wrong, just wrong. They are not part of the natural food chain here. They are an introduced predator.

Who cares?

Because those birds pecking at the grass or teaching their babies to fly haven't evolved to deal with feline stalkers.

Give me a break. There is a pair of nesting cardinals that comes every year to my yard. They TERRORIZE my cat.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we were to stop predation in cats, the rodent population would spiral out of control. "Killer cats" are predator cats. They are part of the natural food chain.

Do you see all the posts in Off Topic about mice and rats? Do you not see the value of the cat as predator? Put a bell on every cat and watch your rat, mouse, and vole population spiral out of control. Look forward to mouse droppings and the wires on your car being eaten.

Ridiculous post.

Wrong, just wrong. They are not part of the natural food chain here. They are an introduced predator.

Who cares?

Because those birds pecking at the grass or teaching their babies to fly haven't evolved to deal with feline stalkers.

Give me a break. There is a pair of nesting cardinals that comes every year to my yard. They TERRORIZE my cat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These estimates are highly exaggerated. The numbers are not based on concrete evidence. This is part of a campaign perpetuated by crazy bird people who just want to see TNR efforts by cat people derailed (case in point the National Zoo employee who was a bird researcher who deliberately set out poison for for the neighborhood feral cat colony).

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/14/justice/dc-cat-poisoning

Actually, there is hard evidence of the declining bird populations due to outdoors cats.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/outdoor-cats-kill-between-14-billion-and-37-billion-birds-a-year-study-says/2013/01/31/2504f744-6bbe-11e2-ada0-5ca5fa7ebe79_story.html

Absolutely agree, there's hard evidence that can't be dismissed because of one lone nutcase. Yes, there was one "crazy bird person" (not people) who made a good sensationalized story in the press. She might even be in jail now, I know she went to court. But the scientific evidence is very solid that non-native cats are decimating various native bird populations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we were to stop predation in cats, the rodent population would spiral out of control. "Killer cats" are predator cats. They are part of the natural food chain.

Do you see all the posts in Off Topic about mice and rats? Do you not see the value of the cat as predator? Put a bell on every cat and watch your rat, mouse, and vole population spiral out of control. Look forward to mouse droppings and the wires on your car being eaten.

Ridiculous post.

Wrong, just wrong. They are not part of the natural food chain here. They are an introduced predator.

Who cares?

Because those birds pecking at the grass or teaching their babies to fly haven't evolved to deal with feline stalkers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we were to stop predation in cats, the rodent population would spiral out of control. "Killer cats" are predator cats. They are part of the natural food chain.

Do you see all the posts in Off Topic about mice and rats? Do you not see the value of the cat as predator? Put a bell on every cat and watch your rat, mouse, and vole population spiral out of control. Look forward to mouse droppings and the wires on your car being eaten.

Ridiculous post.

Wrong, just wrong. They are not part of the natural food chain here. They are an introduced predator.

Who cares?

10:33 -- oh well, at least you tried. And it sounds like you live in a much more spacious (5 acres) environment than most of our potential adopters in the DC/MD/VA area do, so that's good. You can only do so much! Glad you made it work for you (and kitty!).

10:09 I used to abide by that philosophy until I adopted a cat (2 time reject in other homes) who refused to be an indoor cat. He peed all over the house until he was allowed to go outside. He thinks he is a dog--scratches at the door to go to the bathroom. I had never had an indoor/outdoor cat until he entered our lives. The option was to return him or allow him to have the life he wanted. Since he was already a two time reject, we opted to keep him recognizing that he may have a shorter life going out side than if he was inside (unless of course he was returned the shelter and most surely would be euthanized). Twelve years later, he still goes outside to urinate and yes, will still pee inside if we try to contain him. I stopped feeding the birds when he entered our lives and he rarely brings anything home except an occasional mouse. We live on 5 acres and he doesn't wander far so cars have never been a problem. The ideal, doesn't always work out in real life.

Anonymous wrote:Ask your vet about outdoor cats. Most are totally against it, it is a major stress for them to be out, and a lot of times they end up getting hit by a car. And where do you think they are pooping? Of course it's in your neighbors yards.

+1

The rescue organization for whom I volunteer, Homeward Trails, will not even adopt to people who are not going to keep them as indoor cats. The lifespans of indoor cats are so much longer than outdoor cats' b/c they are not exposed to predators like wildlife or dogs, cars, potential poisons such as fertilizers or pesticides, etc.

Keeping cats indoors: http://www.homewardtrails.org/resources/cats/keeping-cats-indoors --->"?People often have a romantic image of an outdoor cat's life, and take offense at the idea of keeping their pet inside. While it's true some cats enjoy the out-of-doors, they also face serious hazards that can jeopardize their lives. A major risk for outdoor cats, and one we hear about all too often, is being hit by a car. Cats can also get stuck in a garage, basement, or other space where they can become dehydrated or starve. And encounters with other cats can expose your cat to diseases, some of which cannot be vaccinated against. Finally, there are people who simply do not want cats in their yard. These disgruntled neighbors may trap your outdoor cat and take him or her to the animal control center. Fortunately, there are many ways to help your feline friend to have a happy, fulfilled life indoors or to allow your cat a safe outdoor experience."