Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who questions the value of homework? By 5th grade, I probably had some math problems most nights (it's so long ago, I may not remember correctly) but that's probably all. I was ten years old. I did not have an hour or more per night and 5 hours on the weekend. I got into an Ivy anyway. Is all of this work of actual instructional value? The Finns don't do this to their children, and they're among the top scorers in the world. Does anyone else wonder if we're beating the love of learning out of our children, instead of encouraging it?

Keep in mind that the BASIS curriculum in accelerated. A BASIS fifth grader should probably be doing the same amount of homework as a sixth or seventh grader at another school. Also, that BASIS fifth grader can usually graduate after 111th grade with up 10 APs under his belt, so he can probably skip most of freshman year at college as well.

See but this is where I think the BASIS model is out of whack, despite possessing some strong traits as a school. What is the purpose of elementary and secondary school? Is it to prepare for and then take the most amount of APs by 11th grade, and position oneself to graduate from college in 3 years? Yes perhaps from some parents point of view. Almost always no if you put yourself in the shoes of the child. APs are not without worth. They show colleges an objective score, like the SAT. But having 12 4s and 5s is not 3x better than having 4 4s and 5s. Colleges want interesting kids. Extracurriculars and community service and other growth experiences will be much more important than piling on the APs, and this is something BASIS doesn't seem to get (although perhaps it only becomes a problem in the later grades). Additionally, though the brochures don't mention it, I assure you that all classes teach to the test. In AP courses this is a given, but in lower school teachers are evaluated primarily on comp pass rates. Again, the AP is not a bad test in itself, but they are multiple choice heavy and the writing components are quite superficial exercises.

BASIS is not an elementary school, though. BASIS is a public charter prep school. The goal of the BASIS upper school is to prepare its students to be admitted to graduate from top-tier four-year colleges. The goal of the BASIS lower school is to prepare its students, many of whom come from under-performing elementary schools, for the rigorous upper school curriculum. I note also that the BASIS lower school originally started with the sixth grade. The fifth grade was added later, apparently as a remedial year, and fifth graders do not have to pass comprehensive exams to be promoted, as students in every other grade must.

One way to prepare kids for college is, well, to teach them college-level material. The AP exam serves two roles. First, it provides objective evidence that the student has mastered the material. Preparing students for the AP Chemistry exam is not "teaching to the test", it is "teaching chemistry." Second, it keeps the student from having to cover the material again in college and allows him or her to move on to move advanced classes.

As for extracurriculars, BASIS students pursue them both at school and out of school. An academically rigorous curriculum and extracurricular activities are not mutually exclusive. BASIS offers up to two hours of extracurricular activities each day after school, and many if not most BASIS students participate. Due to the rigors of the curriculum, BASIS students develop strong work ethics and time management skills that serve them well in other areas of their lives.

Oh, and BASIS students go on to top private and public colleges and universities, so BASIS seems to "get it".

If you want something done, ask a busy person to do it. The more things you do, the more you can do.
-Lucille Ball

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In the meantime, little Basis robots are not going to be prized at highly selective universities.

BASIS students in Arizona are admitted to lots of highly selective universities.

True, but a couple of points to keep in mind.

(1) Whenever schools list the acceptances for seniors, a handful of the best students account for almost all of the selective schools. The one that gets into Princeton also gets into Williams, etc. A good percentage of the class go to state school or 2nd tier liberal arts schools.

(2) Students that perform well on APs and can handle the accelerated curriculum (i.e., basically those with aptitude / high IQ & parental support) will do well at BASIS and be competitive for college applications. The question is whether they are best served by the BASIS experience. I personally feel that focusing solely on APs in high school leaves critical skill sets underdeveloped (creative/lateral thinking, problem solving, independent study, intrinsic motivation etc.). These are the skill sets that are the primary focus in private schools, and there is a reason for that. Now some gifted students at BASIS may well develop all or some of these non-AP-test-based skills, but it would seem to be in spite of the BASIS curriculum rather than because of it.

By the way, to the "robot" poster... if you feel, as I do, that BASIS is not for your child, then please feel free to share your thoughts and experiences. But please refrain from making such insulting and baseless personal attacks on the students/parents who happen not to share your views. Although I withdrew my DC based on concerns with the overall philosophy of BASIS, I was VERY impressed generally with the students and the teachers.

Finally, to address the OP directly... BASIS is a challenging experience from day 1 and the challenge increases steadily from grade to grade. The most difficult part of the curriculum is math, since all kids are expected to be doing some level of calculus (either AB or BC) by 9th grade. That said, I think you'd be surprised at what kids can do with adequate focus, good teachers, a culture that supports learning, and a lot of parental support. However, there are costs to this for many, especially kids who don't "get it" as readily as others. Homework completion time will increase, as will list of concepts not fully understood. If your kid stumbles, the cumulative load of trying to review old material while absorbing new material can be too much. Burnout is a constant risk.

Anonymous wrote:

What does that get us? Little automatons that can test out of the first year survey courses at Maryland? What is the goal? Knowledge and the desire to pursue education? Or just college credits? Obviously these aren't the well-rounded students that highly-respected universities desire. Is the point of creating these little robots simply to avoid a year's worth of college tuition?

Maybe we should be discussing college tuition. How is it sensible that the cost-of-living index can rise at 1 - 2% per year, and yet college tuition rises 10 - 12% per year? (Student loans - which schools then factor into their budgets and tuition, and it allows them to never cut costs. If you want to see the tuition start to align with reality, then some departments & administrators need to be let go. But, however obvious this is it is still an argument for another thread.

In the meantime, little Basis robots are not going to be prized at highly selective universities.

My kid, the one who does homework in the higher range of time spent is not having an automaton experience at all at Basis. My DC is literally joyful and beaming whenever I bring him to school or pick him up from school. My DC recounts daily all of the fun learning activities he has done at school. Of course, there has been a lot of content taught in creative ways in his classes, but there is also time for discussion and other activities as well.

Teaching content is a good thing. Many schools lack in teaching actual content, and, hence, we end up with many people in America who lack basic knowledge in many areas. Just watch Jay Leno when he walks the street!!!

Anonymous wrote:

In the meantime, little Basis robots are not going to be prized at highly selective universities.

BASIS students in Arizona are admitted to lots of highly selective universities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who questions the value of homework? By 5th grade, I probably had some math problems most nights (it's so long ago, I may not remember correctly) but that's probably all. I was ten years old. I did not have an hour or more per night and 5 hours on the weekend. I got into an Ivy anyway. Is all of this work of actual instructional value? The Finns don't do this to their children, and they're among the top scorers in the world. Does anyone else wonder if we're beating the love of learning out of our children, instead of encouraging it?

Keep in mind that the BASIS curriculum in accelerated. A BASIS fifth grader should probably be doing the same amount of homework as a sixth or seventh grader at another school. Also, that BASIS fifth grader can usually graduate after 111th grade with up 10 APs under his belt, so he can probably skip most of freshman year at college as well.

What does that get us? Little automatons that can test out of the first year survey courses at Maryland? What is the goal? Knowledge and the desire to pursue education? Or just college credits? Obviously these aren't the well-rounded students that highly-respected universities desire. Is the point of creating these little robots simply to avoid a year's worth of college tuition?

Maybe we should be discussing college tuition. How is it sensible that the cost-of-living index can rise at 1 - 2% per year, and yet college tuition rises 10 - 12% per year? (Student loans - which schools then factor into their budgets and tuition, and it allows them to never cut costs. If you want to see the tuition start to align with reality, then some departments & administrators need to be let go. But, however obvious this is it is still an argument for another thread.

In the meantime, little Basis robots are not going to be prized at highly selective universities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who questions the value of homework? By 5th grade, I probably had some math problems most nights (it's so long ago, I may not remember correctly) but that's probably all. I was ten years old. I did not have an hour or more per night and 5 hours on the weekend. I got into an Ivy anyway. Is all of this work of actual instructional value? The Finns don't do this to their children, and they're among the top scorers in the world. Does anyone else wonder if we're beating the love of learning out of our children, instead of encouraging it?

Keep in mind that the BASIS curriculum in accelerated. A BASIS fifth grader should probably be doing the same amount of homework as a sixth or seventh grader at another school. Also, that BASIS fifth grader can usually graduate after 111th grade with up 10 APs under his belt, so he can probably skip most of freshman year at college as well.

See but this is where I think the BASIS model is out of whack, despite possessing some strong traits as a school. What is the purpose of elementary and secondary school? Is it to prepare for and then take the most amount of APs by 11th grade, and position oneself to graduate from college in 3 years? Yes perhaps from some parents point of view. Almost always no if you put yourself in the shoes of the child. APs are not without worth. They show colleges an objective score, like the SAT. But having 12 4s and 5s is not 3x better than having 4 4s and 5s. Colleges want interesting kids. Extracurriculars and community service and other growth experiences will be much more important than piling on the APs, and this is something BASIS doesn't seem to get (although perhaps it only becomes a problem in the later grades). Additionally, though the brochures don't mention it, I assure you that all classes teach to the test. In AP courses this is a given, but in lower school teachers are evaluated primarily on comp pass rates. Again, the AP is not a bad test in itself, but they are multiple choice heavy and the writing components are quite superficial exercises.

The most important fit with BASIS in my opinion is with the parents. Children are remarkably flexible and adaptable, for better or for worse. They will adapt as best they can to any given environment, within reason. It will be easier for students who can handle the math and have a knack for and desire to perform rote memorization. Those who struggle with accelerated math will eventually get left behind.

I personally feel BASIS has strayed too far from its original (i.e., 10 years ago original) credo of "Asian academic rigor blended with American creativity" and that there is too much emphasis now on rote memorization, flash cards, homework problem sets, and performing for tests (mostly multiple choice & full in the blanks). This is more apparent however in the AP-centric high school curriculum. There is a reason why this model is looked down upon by private schools. But it is a free market, and there are slim pickings out there.

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who questions the value of homework? By 5th grade, I probably had some math problems most nights (it's so long ago, I may not remember correctly) but that's probably all. I was ten years old. I did not have an hour or more per night and 5 hours on the weekend. I got into an Ivy anyway. Is all of this work of actual instructional value? The Finns don't do this to their children, and they're among the top scorers in the world. Does anyone else wonder if we're beating the love of learning out of our children, instead of encouraging it?

Keep in mind that the BASIS curriculum in accelerated. A BASIS fifth grader should probably be doing the same amount of homework as a sixth or seventh grader at another school. Also, that BASIS fifth grader can usually graduate after 111th grade with up 10 APs under his belt, so he can probably skip most of freshman year at college as well.

Anonymous wrote:So how much homework is there? It sounds all over the place.

How much homework for a fifth grader at/above grade level (does not need remediation) with good time management skills?

Our fifth grader, who was not all that organized, but is getting better, usually has under an hour of homework per night. Occasionally (every three weeks) it goes to two hours. Some nights there's hardly any at all. More and more she uses AERO (study hall) and the time provided in class (maybe 15 minutes) to get a jump on her homework. She's learning to be efficient, and she's realizing school is more fun when she's focused, gets it done, and puts it into a box.

She still has plenty of time (maybe too much free time) for non scholastic activities and chillin'.

She's gained a sense of confidence this year. We think it is because she feels like she has earned her good grades, and not just slid by using her wit and charm. When she gets a grade of 95, she knows she did real work and deserves it.

She likes her classmates and while there may be no way to escape the awkward middle school stuff, the school culture appears to be kind, supportive and fun. We feel like the kids are developing a genuine respect for each others academic ability. And when she gets together with her friends they constantly chit chat and giggle about stuff at school.

We are pleasantly surprised with the academic workload and overall experience she is having, and we are happy she likes going to school.

Just our two cents.

Am I the only one who questions the value of homework? By 5th grade, I probably had some math problems most nights (it's so long ago, I may not remember correctly) but that's probably all. I was ten years old. I did not have an hour or more per night and 5 hours on the weekend. I got into an Ivy anyway. Is all of this work of actual instructional value? The Finns don't do this to their children, and they're among the top scorers in the world. Does anyone else wonder if we're beating the love of learning out of our children, instead of encouraging it?

So how much homework is there? It sounds all over the place.

How much homework for a fifth grader at/above grade level (does not need remediation) with good time management skills?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"5-7 hours of homework on the weekend"

this is nuts. 5th graders are 10 years old. What 10 year old should be spending 7 hours on homework each weekend? That seems completely out of balance to me.

And 2-3 hours every night. What kind of life is this for a 5th grade child? Why is this necessary? I am all for academic rigor, but this sounds completely ridiculous. Why would you choose this for your child? Serious question.

Actually, it is all about time management. My DC still has time for friends, numerous extra-curricular activities, family outings and activities, free reading, drawing, occasional favorite TV shows/family movies, and day dreaming!!

Anonymous wrote:From this thread, it seems that the time kids need to do homework is all over the map. My 5th grader has about an hour of homework a night, sometimes less, an amount that I think is just right. Every night (except for Wednesday) there are 30 math problems to do. He rarely has the entire problem set to do because he usually gets a start on those in class after the teacher is done presenting the lesson. In addition to math, he has about 30-40 minutes of other work. This is in addition to the stuff he completes during the AERO study period. He made the 90s club for the first two grading periods, but just barely. He probably could get higher grades if he studied more, but I don't want him to give up sports, music, etc.

I agree and my kid is the one at the higher end of the range when it comes to homework. I am hopeful it will take him less time as he becomes more efficient. However, I am still expecting that he will have a fair amount of homework.

Anonymous wrote:"5-7 hours of homework on the weekend"

this is nuts. 5th graders are 10 years old. What 10 year old should be spending 7 hours on homework each weekend? That seems completely out of balance to me.

It is usually the lower end of the ranges I gave. On the weekends, we take advantage of getting ahead in math to lighten the load during the week so that DC can participate in activities. The amount of time spent on the weekends is spit up between Friday, Saturday, and Sunday so it is not nuts or extreme. There was a huge jump for my DC in math coupled with learning to organize and focus which has partly contributed to the amount of work. Believe me, my DC still has lots of fun!!

I think homework is a reasonable skill and prepares one for college as long a said homework contributes to the education of the child. The homework that has been assigned thus far does contribute to my DC's education.

From this thread, it seems that the time kids need to do homework is all over the map. My 5th grader has about an hour of homework a night, sometimes less, an amount that I think is just right. Every night (except for Wednesday) there are 30 math problems to do. He rarely has the entire problem set to do because he usually gets a start on those in class after the teacher is done presenting the lesson. In addition to math, he has about 30-40 minutes of other work. This is in addition to the stuff he completes during the AERO study period. He made the 90s club for the first two grading periods, but just barely. He probably could get higher grades if he studied more, but I don't want him to give up sports, music, etc.