Anonymous
Post 01/03/2013 10:07     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Anonymous wrote:I'd like to see data on the matter of ultimate adult outcomes for people who were outstanding child and teen athletes. I believe there are outcome risks involved with the idea of too much success too early in life - something like what Springsteen sings about in "Glory Days". In aggregate there are probably equal numbers of people who become successful adults or not, from each cohort of children regardless of their individual athlete talents as children?!?!

There must be studies on this topic out there. If there are any people or psychologists in the DCUM community who have such knowledge it would be good to hear your thoughts.

Thanks


It would be interesting to see data. I know in hiring in some industries that people often look for sports team captains so that indicates that early success aids later success. My industry is still male dominated at the top and being able to demonstrate an interest in sports, or reference past glories, is surprisingly important.
Anonymous
Post 01/03/2013 09:45     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
I'd like to see data on the matter of ultimate adult outcomes for people who were outstanding child and teen athletes. I believe there are outcome risks involved with the idea of too much success too early in life - something like what Springsteen sings about in "Glory Days". In aggregate there are probably equal numbers of people who become successful adults or not, from each cohort of children regardless of their individual athlete talents as children?!?!

There must be studies on this topic out there. If there are any people or psychologists in the DCUM community who have such knowledge it would be good to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
Anonymous
Post 01/03/2013 09:25     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Also, watch a couple of episodes of Dance Moms to get an idea of what this world is really like.


Oh please

Dance Moms is a joke among the competitive dance world.

It is nothing like the real thing.

Ask anyone who is actually involved in dance. It is all made up drama for TV. Please don't take that show seriously. Take it at face value: trashy, scripted, reality TV at its worst.

Abbey Lee Miller was frankly nothing notable before this show (no one had ever heard of her or her studio, and her kids were a dime a dozen among scores of talented children filled, over the top, controversial studios to audition. The casting call for this show was sent to many studios, and requested drama) It is all fake stuff put together for television.


Of course the drama is made up, but the types of dances/dancing, the costumes, the competitions ... that's what it's like. And it seems inherently trashy to me -- sorry, but I just can't imagine a serious dance student participating in that kind of thing. Seems one step up from beauty pageants.


Dance moms is trashy, but the dance moms I know are pretty much like that.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 23:47     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
I heard from someone high up in the dance world that they are having trouble finding good, solid dancers these days due to the explosion in dance teams and competitions. The kids don't get the solid fundamentals and individual attention that we did back in the day. The kids look great as a team, but separate one of them out and they're severely lacking in basic skills. If you want you daughter to flop around in super-expensive glitzy costumes, dance team at 7 would be a good choice, but if you think she's really going to be a dancer, find a real studio that can give her the kind of thoughtful training she would need and hold off on team until later. Most proper studios will have a Nutcracker or some sort of event in addition to the end-of-the-year recital if she's interested in performing.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 23:17     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Anonymous wrote:Also, google "competitive dance teams" and look at the pictures and videos. Little girls in expensive, often inappropriately sexy costumes and lots of makeup.

My friend's sister in law is a "dance mom" and no, the drama isn't there like it is on the show, but a lot of the other stuff is. Pushy moms (not that OP would be, but it speaks to the atmosphere), lots of pressure, and for what?


Meh, make up is for the stage lights. No big deal. Trust me, those girls are not running around in class or at school with fake eyelashes, red lipstick and glitter sparkle glam, even if the Dance Mom kids are.

Some of the costumes and dances are entirely inappropriate, but that is a direct result of specific coaches with poor judgement combined with irresponsible parents.

Most teams and studios are not that way. Dance Moms is just a caricature of the bad eggs.

In the same way that involvement in competitive sports will not make your kid a hazing bully with steroid issues, eating disorders and a nasty competitive, dominant disposition unless the coaches and parents are already bad people, competitive dance will not turn your daughter into a makeup obsessed, mean spirited, pageant type diva who likes to spend her time acting sexy while wearing as few clothes as possible. It is a silly generalization to make.

But, back to the original question, 5 days/week plus weekends for a novice 7 year old competitive dancer is a recipe for burnout and financial overload.

If you are interested, but not commited, see if your studio will consider a petite or min team that competes at the novice or recreational level. Those teams are for families that want to get their feet wet, and are not allowed to train more than 3-5 hours/week depending on the competition. They are adjudicated separately from the serious kids, and your dancer will still get valuable feedback from professional judges.

Also consider, if this team is for competition this season, and the kids are all novice, you are way, way too late in the game to achieve any type of success this year, even rehearsing 5 days/week. You will invest a lot of time and money only to get blown out of the water by the experienced teams that have been working on their routines since August or September.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 22:50     Subject: Re:Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: I just can't help but wonder, what's the point? If a kid loves the activity, wouldn't they still love just taking a few recreational classes a week? There must be other things the kids would enjoy doing as well. Why choose this type of lifestyle for your family?


Recreational classes and team gymnastics are worlds apart when it comes to what the kids do and can learn to do. Mine wouldn't be satisfied with recreational classes. I would say there are benefits that carry over to other areas of life. Two in particular that come to mind are the ability to handle lots of responsibility and manage time from a young age and the ability to keep at something until you get it rather than giving up because it's hard. As far as what's the point, if your child is successful in it, it's nice to be able to give it to your child.




I realize that there is a huge difference between skills learned in recreational classes vs. highly competitive leagues, but still...I don't see why people put such emphasis on kids sports. Really, what's the big deal?


I might have said the same thing before I had a kid with both a passion and a talent for a competitive sport. Having such a kid changes things. It's not the parents pushing, it's the kids. And for the PP who said 12 is the age to start because you don't want them to complain about practice, my experience is that when its the kid who wants it, even young kids won't complain. My now ten year old has never once asked for a day off from practice. If we need to be away, he wants the plan for the make up practice in place even before he misses.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 13:13     Subject: Re:Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Anonymous wrote:I have a seven year old who is in a competitive sport. She practices 2-3 days a week and often has meets on the weekends a couple of times a month. In some cases, the meets are two-day events.

I was warned specifically by a coach I trust not to let her practice more than this (I was thinking of bumping her up to four times a week at her request). He said that many kids who could go on to the elite level burn out at around 10 or 12 if they are pushed (or push themselves) too hard too early.

With that in mind, I would think a 5 day a week commitment to the same activity is too much. I also agree that if this is a new team, the owner may be trying to raise revenue or hasn't thought through the impact of asking for that kind of commitment at age 7. She may end up with no team once everybody quits in a year or two.

In terms of why do it to the family, in theory I agree. In real life, though, I can tell you that the sense of accomplishment the kids get from their progress is tremendous. My older kid was asked to join a competitive team last year in a different sport, and her focus on the sport and her pride at being on the team is something to see. She keeps her grades up, is speaking up more in school, and generally is doing well. I would not take that away from her. The little one is already very focused on her sport and glows with pride and excitement whenever she is asked to practice with the bigger kids.

Given the astronomical odds against it, it's pretty safe to say neither will ever go to the Olympics, become a professional athlete or even go to nationals, but they are learning good lessons from sports about focus, working hard to achieve a result, time management, team dynamics and passion. I think those are all lessons worth learning, and I was not really even an athlete growing up. Sometmes we run arond all weekend because of sports. I hate those weekends. Yet, I love what it does for my kids.


PP has it right above. I did grow up an athlete and can't imagine my H.S./college years without it. That said, I also agree 12 is the age to get serious, not 8. Around here you have to work VERY hard to not get too caught up. You want your young kid begging for more, not complaining about practice.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 13:10     Subject: Re:Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: I just can't help but wonder, what's the point? If a kid loves the activity, wouldn't they still love just taking a few recreational classes a week? There must be other things the kids would enjoy doing as well. Why choose this type of lifestyle for your family?


Recreational classes and team gymnastics are worlds apart when it comes to what the kids do and can learn to do. Mine wouldn't be satisfied with recreational classes. I would say there are benefits that carry over to other areas of life. Two in particular that come to mind are the ability to handle lots of responsibility and manage time from a young age and the ability to keep at something until you get it rather than giving up because it's hard. As far as what's the point, if your child is successful in it, it's nice to be able to give it to your child.




I realize that there is a huge difference between skills learned in recreational classes vs. highly competitive leagues, but still...I don't see why people put such emphasis on kids sports. Really, what's the big deal?
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 13:09     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Most people I know that have played competitive sports still do on adult leagues to stay in shape or just for fun. May coach little league which is a great way to give back to the community.

They learned that physical activity 2 times a week and 1 time on the weekend is good for your body and managable with other committments. It's the non athletes that try running and ruin their knees or are weekend warriors and have a heart attack that I don't want my kids to end up like. Muscles build early in life are very important for future health.

I value physical exercise in a way that is healthy.

They also play an instrument because I think it is important to be well rounded.

Our kids spend 6 1/2 hours a day at school and 2-3 hours at night on homework. Now that is messed up.

Anonymous wrote:My kids are now older, so, to offer some perspective: almost every kid we saw who committed that kind of time at a young age has dropped out of that sport. Some have taken up another activity intensely; some have just cut way back. And many have had multiple injuries and operations.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here: why on earth are so many people making an extraordinary commitment to physical activity but not, say, science, from a young age? What possible use is all that time going to be in the long run? She is almost guaranteed to have lifelong injuries from that intensity of physical practice (ask any dancer or gymnast or soccer player), which she would not risk if she were devoting that time to reading, writing novels, learning math, game theory, economics, languages, or history.

Our values are messed up.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 13:00     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
I think has it's hard to determine if you don't try. I'd suggest to try a year or two. Your child is still young. After couple of years, she may ask to quit, or she gains confidence, focus, team spirits, and wants to keep going.

Give her a chance, and re-evaluate after couple of years.

My 11 yo plays piano (since 6 yo) and violin (since 4 yo), practice 2-3 hours per day, and refuses to give up. The competitions, exams (ASTA, Guild, Theory), recitals, orchestra rehearsals/performances keep her super busy all the time. She won and lost state/county competitions. At school, she is in a county gifted program. so as long as she can keep up with her grades, I'll let her continue both instruments.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 12:37     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Also, google "competitive dance teams" and look at the pictures and videos. Little girls in expensive, often inappropriately sexy costumes and lots of makeup.

My friend's sister in law is a "dance mom" and no, the drama isn't there like it is on the show, but a lot of the other stuff is. Pushy moms (not that OP would be, but it speaks to the atmosphere), lots of pressure, and for what?

Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 12:37     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
My kids are now older, so, to offer some perspective: almost every kid we saw who committed that kind of time at a young age has dropped out of that sport. Some have taken up another activity intensely; some have just cut way back. And many have had multiple injuries and operations.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here: why on earth are so many people making an extraordinary commitment to physical activity but not, say, science, from a young age? What possible use is all that time going to be in the long run? She is almost guaranteed to have lifelong injuries from that intensity of physical practice (ask any dancer or gymnast or soccer player), which she would not risk if she were devoting that time to reading, writing novels, learning math, game theory, economics, languages, or history.

Our values are messed up.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 12:34     Subject: Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Also, watch a couple of episodes of Dance Moms to get an idea of what this world is really like.


Oh please

Dance Moms is a joke among the competitive dance world.

It is nothing like the real thing.

Ask anyone who is actually involved in dance. It is all made up drama for TV. Please don't take that show seriously. Take it at face value: trashy, scripted, reality TV at its worst.

Abbey Lee Miller was frankly nothing notable before this show (no one had ever heard of her or her studio, and her kids were a dime a dozen among scores of talented children filled, over the top, controversial studios to audition. The casting call for this show was sent to many studios, and requested drama) It is all fake stuff put together for television.


Of course the drama is made up, but the types of dances/dancing, the costumes, the competitions ... that's what it's like. And it seems inherently trashy to me -- sorry, but I just can't imagine a serious dance student participating in that kind of thing. Seems one step up from beauty pageants.

Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 12:20     Subject: Re:Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
We do a competitive club sport with one kid. It is practice 3x/week and games or tournaments nearly every weekend, pretty much from August to June. But it is a great experience and playing at that level means that DC plays varsity in high school. It means we don't necessarily have family dinner every night, but we have tons of time with DC going to practices, games, etc. We have become close friends with some of the other families, some from back in the rec days. DC has close friends in the sport both from school and club. I think it's great for kids to have some kind of passion - whether it's sports, music, drama, history, whatever.
Anonymous
Post 01/02/2013 12:17     Subject: Re:Anyone have a child who is in a highly competitive sport team?
If Dance Moms is not true to life, does that mean "Real Housewives" is not a true depiction of housewives? I'm shocked.