Anonymous
Post 12/15/2012 11:32     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:Asian and European countries always test better than African and South American countries. It should not be a surprise that there are more Asian and white students in AAP. Just because they represent more of the population doesn't necessarily mean they should be equally represented in AAP. This is not racial discrimination. This is based on academic ability.


I wish it were based on academic ability. I've mentioned my child's scores before, no need to repeat them. He received a GBRS of 10! His teacher said she didn't see "giftedness" in him. The same thing happened to my nephew. His teacher didn't see him as gifted and in her narrative wrote that she thought his Cogat scores were a fluke. My brother took him to GMU to get tested and his IQ was 142. He is now at a center working at least 2 grade levels about his age.

Teachers often mean well but they make assumptions about students sometimes without even realizing it. I don't think my son's teacher was a racist, I just think she grouped my child early on with average students for reasons I'll never know, didn't challenge him and got the results she expected. It happens all the time. He wasn't even pulled out with the AAP resource teacher in 1st and 2nd grade because the teacher said she picked her top students for that sort of thing. He had all O's and a Naglieri in the 99th percentile! When I found out about it in the middle of 2nd grade I told the principal and she was furious. He was pulled out immediately.

Like my brother I had my child tested at GMU because you start to doubt yourself with so many people saying people who look like you cant' do this or that. I was so embarrassed and mad at myself when I found out my child's scores. I vowed to never let anything or anybody hold him back again.
Anonymous
Post 12/15/2012 11:14     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:So do you think more blacks and latinos should be brought in even if they don't have the grades or ability yet? The only people who seem to be forcing this are the blacks and latinos. Otherwise, race would not have been brought up with AAP.


You missed the whole point. I'm not pushing anything, that's your assumption. I am simply saying that my child's IQ is higher than 99.9% of the population yet I am not complaining that children with lower ability are in his class. His ability runs circles around his white and Asian classmates yet I am not saying they shouldn't be educated with him. So why are others saying that because SOME white and Asian students are of higher ability that they shouldn't allow children of other races of slightly less higher ability in the class. If that were true, my child should be in a class by himself. That's stupid.

Your students with Cogat scores in the 130's are low compared to mine and others with Cogat scores in the 150's and some at the 160 ceiling. Should your child be taken out of class because he doesn't meet the 150 threshold of a student like mine? I bet then many parents on this board would beg for them to lower the cut off to allow their kid in.

Anonymous
Post 12/15/2012 07:34     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:While FCPS is dumbing down for blacks and latinos? My DS is black and has an IQ of 150+ on the WISC IV and SB. He has been thriving in AAP for several years and continues to outperform peers.

There are MANY children in my sons's AAP classes who are barely working above grade level. But guess what, I don't mind at all. They aren't harming anyone. They aren't taking away an opportunity from my child. In fact, they are enriching his life and he's learning that everyone has strengths in different areas. It also is character building that he's able to help his peers.

This is the problem with so many parents, people in general, they are so afraid of something different. Or someone taking an opportunity from them. Our society is better when everyone has an opportunity to meet their full potential. If your child is truly gifted they will thrive. And if you're concerned they aren't getting enough from the program offer tons of enrichment at home. That's what we do and it works. I don't go around saying why are these dumb white or Asian kids being allowed to learn alongside with my superior son. That sort of talk is offensive. And I'm sick of the notion that it's somehow okay when the races are reversed.


I agree with everything you say except this. Unfortunately, not every gifted child will thrive just because he or she is gifted. Some will, but some truly need to be taught in different ways. Some just need help dealing with the fact that they are different from other kids. At the centers, these kids can be with a group of peers so that they are not always the different one and they can be taught at a level and pace that is truly challenging and helps them learn how to learn.

The centers are crucially important for the truly gifted child who cannot thrive in a regular classroom. Not every school district provides a suitable education for these children. I'm glad FCPS does, or at least tries to.






Anonymous
Post 12/14/2012 22:12     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Asian and European countries always test better than African and South American countries. It should not be a surprise that there are more Asian and white students in AAP. Just because they represent more of the population doesn't necessarily mean they should be equally represented in AAP. This is not racial discrimination. This is based on academic ability.
Anonymous
Post 12/14/2012 13:23     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
So do you think more blacks and latinos should be brought in even if they don't have the grades or ability yet? The only people who seem to be forcing this are the blacks and latinos. Otherwise, race would not have been brought up with AAP.
Anonymous
Post 12/14/2012 08:22     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
While FCPS is dumbing down for blacks and latinos? My DS is black and has an IQ of 150+ on the WISC IV and SB. He has been thriving in AAP for several years and continues to outperform peers.

There are MANY children in my sons's AAP classes who are barely working above grade level. But guess what, I don't mind at all. They aren't harming anyone. They aren't taking away an opportunity from my child. In fact, they are enriching his life and he's learning that everyone has strengths in different areas. It also is character building that he's able to help his peers.

This is the problem with so many parents, people in general, they are so afraid of something different. Or someone taking an opportunity from them. Our society is better when everyone has an opportunity to meet their full potential. If your child is truly gifted they will thrive. And if you're concerned they aren't getting enough from the program offer tons of enrichment at home. That's what we do and it works. I don't go around saying why are these dumb white or Asian kids being allowed to learn alongside with my superior son. That sort of talk is offensive. And I'm sick of the notion that it's somehow okay when the races are reversed.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2012 09:44     Subject: While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Um, what's your point? AAP is now serving a large group of students. Admitting a few under-represented minorities who show promise into the clasee isn't going to hurt anyone. The AAP classes are really not that advanced. They work one grade level above. In my kid's general education class, many of the students work one grade above. I'm sure some of the minority students could handle it, even if they don't have the exact test scores to normally be admitted.


Large group, let's say 20%. Let's say increase it to 25% to admit them.
Why do you feel it's OK to reject equally or better qualified White or Asian kids?

Yes!

"In my kid's general education class, many of the students work one grade above."
Yes it's called Level III AAP. What's your point?


That there is no real distinction between Level III and Level IV services.


There is a SIGNIFICANT distinction between Level III and Level IV services. At our school Level III gets 30-45 minutes a week for about 3/4 of the year (they start late and end early in the year), and there is absolutely NO identification before 3rd grade of any kids that might benefit from early intervention, as I've heard about from other schools. First and second graders getting pull-outs? Unheard of in our school with our half time AAP teacher. She's even frustrated by her lack of time at the school - she's split between two large schools serving neither fully. The difference is that these Level III kids go back to their Gen Ed class where their teaches either do or do not have the tools to differentiate in the classroom. With such a wide variety of learning levels in one class, it's VERY different from LLIV or Center Level IV. Some schools may be a little closer, but if you are talking about minority access to the program, then there is a WIDE gap between these two service models in our school and our local Center.
Anonymous
Post 12/12/2012 08:47     Subject: While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
I wish they did more to segregate kids into intellect-appropriate groups/classes in school. It shouldn't have to be AAP or not AAP. Why not have basic ed, intermediate, advanced, and have kids switch classes so that if they lag in one area but excel in another, they can go to the appropriate class.

I also think they should break out Kindergarten classes by age. So the Red shirts can be with the older Ks, and the late birthdays can be with the younger Ks.

Too complicated ($$$) I guess.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2012 19:12     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So FCPS AAP is already very generous comparing to national average..
Dilute it more? It should actually contract.


Correct, it should be about 5 to 6% of the student pop & no more. Or they should just do away with it


+1

If the 130s want to be in a "gifted" class, give it to them. Call it whatever they want it to be named. Then put the real gifted kids (140+) in a Level V program.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2012 14:58     Subject: While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:

Yes, this.


No, that.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2012 14:57     Subject: While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:

That there is no real distinction between Level III and Level IV services.


So why force certain minorities into Level IV while they'll be doing fine in Level III or II or I or 0 whatever suitable for them.

Anonymous
Post 12/11/2012 14:48     Subject: While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:OP why are you so afraid that your kids will be hurt by admitting more kids to AAP. If your kids naturally smart, curious and driven, it won't matter whether s/he learns about Aristotle in 5th grade or 7th grade. Your child's ultimate trajectory in life is not going to be changed by a change in the FCPS curriculum adding more kids into AAP (probably at other schools). But just for the sake of argument, let's say another 5-10 kids (black and hispanic) are allowed into your kid's class and the lessons are *quite* as fast as they were last year in this same school.... SO WHAT!

I'm guessing by your interest in this issue and education in general, that your household has educated adults who are interested in the world and who give their children many opportunities to think about and learn about reading/math/science/politics/philosophy/etc. Assuming that your worst fears come to be, any "dilution" of the curriculum is NOT going to change your kids' ability to succeed in HS, college, grad school and beyond. It's just not. Do you realize that most of the great inventors did not have access to a GT/AAP type of education?

I know we all get protective and want the best for our kids and we all have hopes for their lives to be really happy and successful with no limitations, but the arguments I'm seeing for stopping the spread of AAP seem to be over-the-top and self centered.

Be confident -- your AAP kid is stellar --- he/she will still be stellar if other kids get access to AAP.


Yes, this.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2012 14:46     Subject: While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:

Um, what's your point? AAP is now serving a large group of students. Admitting a few under-represented minorities who show promise into the clasee isn't going to hurt anyone. The AAP classes are really not that advanced. They work one grade level above. In my kid's general education class, many of the students work one grade above. I'm sure some of the minority students could handle it, even if they don't have the exact test scores to normally be admitted.


Large group, let's say 20%. Let's say increase it to 25% to admit them.
Why do you feel it's OK to reject equally or better qualified White or Asian kids?

Yes!

"In my kid's general education class, many of the students work one grade above."
Yes it's called Level III AAP. What's your point?


That there is no real distinction between Level III and Level IV services.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2012 14:37     Subject: While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
That kind of talk will end up with AAP either fully integrated back into overall gen pop or have FCPS get rid of it altogether.
Anonymous
Post 12/11/2012 14:32     Subject: Re:While FCPS is talking about dumbing down AAP for Blacks/Latinos..
Anonymous wrote:There should be no discrimination against equally or more qualified Asian or White kids.



lol