Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 15:08     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
This thread is making me see red.

1) To 14:47 -- No, it's not "a religion, bottom line."

I am Jewish (Ashkenazi) by ethnicity and not religious.

What does this mean? This means that when I tried to conceive I had to be more aware of Tay-Sachs and Gaucher's among others than, let's say, Italians. There is a whole host of these genetic disorders that are quite rare in the general population but not in the Ashkenazi population.

This means that breast cancer is a greater risk for me, and that is why I get special treatment from insurance companies -- one of the questions they ask is "Are you an Ashenazi Jew or descended from one?" That's because BRCA1 and BRCA2 are more common in Ashkenazi Jews -- 1 in 40 as opposed to the general population, which is 1 in 4000.

This means there is a genetic component to being Jewish.

2) To 14:52 and all the other people I have heard this from about not "being true Jews." You have NO idea what you are talking about. A JEW IS A JEW IS A JEW. It does not matter if I NEVER set foot in a temple or synagogue, I am a Jew. Not an observant Jew, not a religious Jew but a Jew. Judaism is NOT like Christianity, where anyone can join just by claiming faith. Christianity is a faith-based religion, Judaism is not. You are born a Jew. What you do with that is up to you.

And finally, there is no higher mortal authority in Judaism, no Pope. No one gets to tell anyone else that the way they are doing it is wrong. That is something Jews have been fighting about since the beginning of time and will continue to do so. Arguing over Jewish law is as much a part of being Jewish as anything else. No one gets to tell another Jew they are not "true Jews," certainly not some goy anonymous poster.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 14:54     Subject: Re:Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Doing these things is part of their culture. It sure doesn't seem weird to me. It's very easy to judge, isn't it.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 14:52     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
In any case, the phrase "Jewish race" is closely associated with Hitler and his attempt to annihilate all Jews. Using it risks offending listeners and/or raising the question of whether the speaker is anti-semitic. Note: I'm pretty old, and perhaps WWII is far enough in the past that this is no longer true??


I agree with you. That is why some might find it offensive when others refer to Judaism as a race. My parents consider themselves cultural Jews. The enjoy the culture of Judaism. For example, they light candles and say prayers for Channukah. They hold a seder during Passover and keep kosher for Passover. They do not, however, believe in God.


This seems oddly pointless, I supposed somewhat akin to celebrating Christmas if you don't believe in Christ.


Then they're not true Jews.

Passover is when God helped the Israelite slaves. Why would you celebrate that if God wasn't in the picture, as he's obviously instrumental in saving them.

and the kosher part? weird . . . Reform Jews and some Conservative Jews don't keep kosher. Why would your parents do that for Passover?
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 14:51     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's an ethnicity, not a race. I've never heard a Jew referring to the "Jewish Race," and as a Jew, I know lots of other Jews. It's common to hear Jews refer to themselves as ethnically (or culturally) Jewish. I'm pretty sure that you're confusing the two, as I can't recall any posts where people refer to themselves as "racially Jewish."


It's a religion.

bottom line

Italian is an ethnicity.

I can flip religions but I can't suddenly decide to be French. (And I'm not talking about becoming a French citizen.)



But you also cannot decide not to be Jewish anymore, just as you cannot decide not to be French (ethnicity) or black (race) anymore.

It just doesnt fit into any single category. Why is that such a problem for you?
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 14:47     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Anonymous wrote:It's an ethnicity, not a race. I've never heard a Jew referring to the "Jewish Race," and as a Jew, I know lots of other Jews. It's common to hear Jews refer to themselves as ethnically (or culturally) Jewish. I'm pretty sure that you're confusing the two, as I can't recall any posts where people refer to themselves as "racially Jewish."


It's a religion.

bottom line

Italian is an ethnicity.

I can flip religions but I can't suddenly decide to be French. (And I'm not talking about becoming a French citizen.)

Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:57     Subject: Re:Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Anonymous wrote:I've never heard of cultural Christians, myself.


Sure, but you probably know lots of people who celebrate Christmas who don't believe in God, right? Its the same thing without a title.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:56     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
I stand corrected. Now I have heard someone refer to him/herself as a cultural Christian.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:53     Subject: Re:Judaism is a religion, not a race.
I've never heard of cultural Christians, myself.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:53     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
In any case, the phrase "Jewish race" is closely associated with Hitler and his attempt to annihilate all Jews. Using it risks offending listeners and/or raising the question of whether the speaker is anti-semitic. Note: I'm pretty old, and perhaps WWII is far enough in the past that this is no longer true??


I agree with you. That is why some might find it offensive when others refer to Judaism as a race. My parents consider themselves cultural Jews. The enjoy the culture of Judaism. For example, they light candles and say prayers for Channukah. They hold a seder during Passover and keep kosher for Passover. They do not, however, believe in God.


This seems oddly pointless, I supposed somewhat akin to celebrating Christmas if you don't believe in Christ.



I think of people who celebrate Christmas but don't believe to be cultural Christians.


That's what I consider myself. A cultural Christian. I'm agnostic but I'm not giving up Christmas. It's extremely easy to see this type of characterization if you've ever lived or spent significant time in a non-Christian country. And maybe that's why it's so common with Jews, because they are a small minority, period.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:51     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
In any case, the phrase "Jewish race" is closely associated with Hitler and his attempt to annihilate all Jews. Using it risks offending listeners and/or raising the question of whether the speaker is anti-semitic. Note: I'm pretty old, and perhaps WWII is far enough in the past that this is no longer true??


I agree with you. That is why some might find it offensive when others refer to Judaism as a race. My parents consider themselves cultural Jews. The enjoy the culture of Judaism. For example, they light candles and say prayers for Channukah. They hold a seder during Passover and keep kosher for Passover. They do not, however, believe in God.


This seems oddly pointless, I supposed somewhat akin to celebrating Christmas if you don't believe in Christ.



I think of people who celebrate Christmas but don't believe to be cultural Christians.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:49     Subject: Re:Judaism is a religion, not a race.
It is not pointless for Jews who consider themselves "cultural Jews" whether you agree with it or not.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:46     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
Anonymous wrote:
In any case, the phrase "Jewish race" is closely associated with Hitler and his attempt to annihilate all Jews. Using it risks offending listeners and/or raising the question of whether the speaker is anti-semitic. Note: I'm pretty old, and perhaps WWII is far enough in the past that this is no longer true??


I agree with you. That is why some might find it offensive when others refer to Judaism as a race. My parents consider themselves cultural Jews. The enjoy the culture of Judaism. For example, they light candles and say prayers for Channukah. They hold a seder during Passover and keep kosher for Passover. They do not, however, believe in God.


This seems oddly pointless, I supposed somewhat akin to celebrating Christmas if you don't believe in Christ.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:40     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
I must admit that Judaism is hard for me to sort out sometimes. While I know it's a religion, it's so ingrained in a person's being that it becomes an ethnicity.

Folks say "I'm Jewish" in a context that many would not say "I'm Christian".
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:33     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.

In any case, the phrase "Jewish race" is closely associated with Hitler and his attempt to annihilate all Jews. Using it risks offending listeners and/or raising the question of whether the speaker is anti-semitic. Note: I'm pretty old, and perhaps WWII is far enough in the past that this is no longer true??


I agree with you. That is why some might find it offensive when others refer to Judaism as a race. My parents consider themselves cultural Jews. The enjoy the culture of Judaism. For example, they light candles and say prayers for Channukah. They hold a seder during Passover and keep kosher for Passover. They do not, however, believe in God.
Anonymous
Post 10/03/2012 13:27     Subject: Judaism is a religion, not a race.
English words often have more than one meaning. I'm a Jew by birth, by self-image, and in the eyes of most people who look at me. But I am an agnostic/atheist who pays no attention to religious doctrine. A religious Jew might not consider me a Jew, but most other people would.

If a person converts, or is from an unusual (Ethiopian, say) background, they are much more Jewish than I am in many ways. But in terms of what the word Jewish means to most Americans, I am probably a better fit.

As to the question of race, that's another word with fuzzy meaning. It would probably be a good thing for our society if we could expunge the word, but the concept is so deeply imbedded in our minds that it is probably impossible to do away with.

In any case, the phrase "Jewish race" is closely associated with Hitler and his attempt to annihilate all Jews. Using it risks offending listeners and/or raising the question of whether the speaker is anti-semitic. Note: I'm pretty old, and perhaps WWII is far enough in the past that this is no longer true??