Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 14:31     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hope we can have a some what sane discussion of the topic of approaching strange dogs when they are on leash.
There is a proposal to put yellow ribbons on dogs that need their space because they are:

-a puppy in training learning to stay calm in large groups
-a dog that is skittish or fearful, but the owner is trying to de-sensitize it to large groups
-a dog that is "dog aggressive" that is, it is aggressive to other dogs only, so should not be approached by other dogs.

http://news.petmeds.com/article/view/id/800863748/n/obey-the-yellow-ribbon

I have a really unusually cute jack russell terrier puppy (10 months old). She is white with a brown spot and a black spot on her back. She has a shaggy soft beard on her muzzle. She is incredibly excitable. She will pee and then dart around in circles and lunge and lick. It is just amazing and AWFUL how often people invade our space and rush up to pet her. They will sometimes ask to pet her and when I say "no, she's really to excitable, they pet her anyway. THEY GET DOWN ON THEIR KNEES AND PUT THEIR FACES RIGHT INTO HERS AND SHE GOES INTO A ZIPPY, ZOOMY FRENZY. I stand off to the side in groups to try to ease her into it slowly. I am trying to teach her to be calm and observe groups of people without lunging into strangers faces and jumping on them. Terriers are SNAPPY sometimes. And generally just over excitable. If they are over-excited, they will sometimes nip. She has never bitten anyone! I guess I am asking:
Would people ever consider giving an overly excitable dog her space and just please stop swarming her? If I don't bring her to public places, she will never learn to be calm...I am not a crazy dog person who thinks that dogs have the right to be everywhere--but, how do folks feel about the yellow ribbon concept? Could you spread the word to your kids and neighbors that dogs with yellow ribbons tied on their leashes just need their space?


I thought this post was a joke!

I don't know who is nuttier, you or the dog. You had better ensure that your dog doesn't bite some poor innocent child or elderly person. It's your responsibility.

And NO, the yellow ribbon thing is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The responsibility belongs to YOU, not to some poor child walking down the street who has to figure out why your crazy peeing, nipping dog has a ribbon on its leash.

Let's leave the yellow ribbons to the military members who are serving their country!



Ha! Well I didn't come up with the yellow ribbon idea--the dog community has. I use that term loosely--as I am not one these crazy dog people that thinks dogs have the same rights as actual human children. I have kids--the youngest is 6--and I never let them pet other people's dogs unless we're in the dog park and the dogs are off leash. And I never take the youngest to the dog park because his face is just too close to dog level for my sense of safety.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 14:27     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I never trust dogs. We have worked hard to instruct our kids never to approach a dog unless 1) myself or DH is with them; and 2) we ask the owner first (from a safe distance) and receive an affirmative reply. And then, DCs put one hand palm-up close (but not too close) to the dog's nose so that the dog can check us out. Then, DCs can pet the dog on the neck/upper back area only if the owner has said it's okay. We also instruct our DCs to always stay in a position in which the dog can see you, closer to his front half than to his rear end, so that he doesn't get startled.


Well, I'm telling you as an experienced dog owner that odds are your kid is going to eventually get their hand nipped or torn off . Children tend to move too quickly around dogs no matter what you tell them. A dog doesn't care about the smell of your hand. They care about butts and genitals and posture and speed. That's pretty much it. Eventually your kid is going to stick their hand near the mouth of the wrong dog with tragic results.


Okay, thanks for the tip, although your delivery was a bit unnecessarily hostile. I always thought that offering your hand (again, not TOO close) so that the dog can sniff it was the proper procedure. Glad to know that apparently it is not.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 14:26     Subject: Re:Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
OP here. I guess I should probably have started off to say that she is as calm as can be when she is standing there next to me at school at pick up at our kid's ES. And she is mostly calm at home. At pick-up we stand waaaaay off to the side where there are no kids, but they flock to her--she is a kid magnet! She will be fine by the time she's around 2--but until then I really have to get her used to large crowds of kids somehow. I have just noticed that no doesn't seem to mean no to 95% of the people I've said no to...I get that there maybe people responding here that say: leave your dog at home, we hate them! But, I'm thinking that's not the norm?
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 14:22     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
I want a ribbon that says "keep your effing dog away from me and my kids."
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 14:12     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I have a really unusually cute jack russell terrier puppy (10 months old). She is white with a brown spot and a black spot on her back. She has a shaggy soft beard on her muzzle. She is incredibly excitable. She will pee and then dart around in circles and lunge and lick. It is just amazing and AWFUL how often people invade our space and rush up to pet her. They will sometimes ask to pet her and when I say "no, she's really to excitable, they pet her anyway. THEY GET DOWN ON THEIR KNEES AND PUT THEIR FACES RIGHT INTO HERS AND SHE GOES INTO A ZIPPY, ZOOMY FRENZY. I stand off to the side in groups to try to ease her into it slowly. I am trying to teach her to be calm and observe groups of people without lunging into strangers faces and jumping on them. Terriers are SNAPPY sometimes. And generally just over excitable. If they are over-excited, they will sometimes nip. She has never bitten anyone! I guess I am asking:
Would people ever consider giving an overly excitable dog her space and just please stop swarming her? If I don't bring her to public places, she will never learn to be calm...I am not a crazy dog person who thinks that dogs have the right to be everywhere--but, how do folks feel about the yellow ribbon concept? Could you spread the word to your kids and neighbors that dogs with yellow ribbons tied on their leashes just need their space?


If you don't bring her to public spaces she will never be calm???? What the hell kind of theory is that? Your dog needs to learn proper training first in your backyard and on the leash. Then bring her to public spaces. The world is not responsible for socializing your dog. Even I, a newbie dog owner, know that.


Actually, since you're a newbie I'm pretty sure you're wrong. There are socialization lessons that your dog will never learn in your backyard. It's like homeschooling a kid--they'll always be awkward around other kids until they are just around other kids more.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 14:07     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:I never trust dogs. We have worked hard to instruct our kids never to approach a dog unless 1) myself or DH is with them; and 2) we ask the owner first (from a safe distance) and receive an affirmative reply. And then, DCs put one hand palm-up close (but not too close) to the dog's nose so that the dog can check us out. Then, DCs can pet the dog on the neck/upper back area only if the owner has said it's okay. We also instruct our DCs to always stay in a position in which the dog can see you, closer to his front half than to his rear end, so that he doesn't get startled.


Well, I'm telling you as an experienced dog owner that odds are your kid is going to eventually get their hand nipped or torn off . Children tend to move too quickly around dogs no matter what you tell them. A dog doesn't care about the smell of your hand. They care about butts and genitals and posture and speed. That's pretty much it. Eventually your kid is going to stick their hand near the mouth of the wrong dog with tragic results.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 13:59     Subject: Re:Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:OP, how "awful" for you that people respond positively to your puppy.

Jack Russels are a HYPER breed--adorable, but HYPER. If you're concerned about your puppy, keep it away from crowds until they have matured. Otherwise people will assume that your dog is properly trained. They should always ask before petting your dog, doesn't always happen. This is on you.


I am OP--if I never take my dog anywhere that there are large groups of strangers, how will she ever get used to it? If you never do it, the dog can become aggressive around people...I know that Jacks are hyper--but they can also learn to be calm--I know I've seen this. The dogs were older, maybe 18 months old, but still. I have had many children, 2 or 3 dozen over the last 8 months ask me if they could pet her. They don't really ask, they beg to. And they are usually already down in the kneeling position when they even ask. After a couple of months of her getting so crazy when kids overwhelm her, I started to just say "no, sweetie she is snappy" and the kids just say: "Oh that's alright, I have a dog at home!" and they start to coo and fuss and she just leaps and strains at her leash and boils over. I've told total stranger adults "Yeah, she's not that great around strangers--she gets too excited"--they NEVER listen--they launch into the story about how they had this exact breed when they were growing up and yesh, yesh, yesh you're a gooooood puppy and let her jump up lick their face inside their nose, mouth--I just stand their kind of dumbstruck by the forwardness of this--and the disregard for a dog's space. She needs the: "no touch, no talk, no eye contact" thing when she's near a crowd until she is a bit older. So the ribbon sounds kind of silly to me but I just wish there were some way to get people to understand that they just shouldn't pet stranger's dogs--unless you're in a dog park, off leash and the dog is then presumed to be socialized and friendly. And I would just pick her up but she's gotten bigger now--close to 20lbs--she's a big Jack and just too heavy to pick up for long periods of time. Sorry I know--I'm rambling.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 13:59     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
11:50 PP here. Thanks for the advice. I will be more careful and keep my son farther away from dogs.

I will note that this adds to my amazement that society has decided it's OK for people to keep dogs in cities. We don't allow chickens in most urban areas b/c they're loud, they shit everywhere, and they don't know any better than to peck at people--why dogs? End rant.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 13:39     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
... or those who are sure their children are dog-friendly...
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 12:52     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:
Am I wrong in assuming that these dogs are safe around children or SURELY their owners would not let them get so close?


Yes, you're wrong to assume the dog is safe. (And even people who are sure their dogs are child-friendly are sometimes sadly disabused of that notion.)
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 12:52     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Some days I want to wear a goddamn yellow ribbon around my neck.

To the pp with children: there are many idiots in the world and lots of dog owners who are idiot pet owners and don't behave properly themselves. I wouldn't assume they know their dog or that they will move out of the way/alert you if there's an issue. I love dogs but run into a lot of people who are clueless about dogs, even the owners.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 12:47     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:It really freaks me out to read dog owners suggesting that other people need to be aware of the potential dangers of their dogs. I am not a dog person and optimistically assume that dog owners will act responsible. Is this foolish of me?

I often walk with my 1 year old down our block with him pushing his little toy cart (he is not walking yet). People walk their dogs on the sidewalk, and the dogs pass very close to my son. Sometimes my son reaches out for the dog, and sometimes the dog will get really close or even lick my baby.

Am I wrong in assuming that these dogs are safe around children or SURELY their owners would not let them get so close? Are the dog owners expecting me to move my child and his cart off the sidewalk or prevent him from reaching out at the dog because I should somehow know that their dog might bite my child? I obviously don't want my child to get hurt, but I dont want to teach him to be unreasonably afraid of dogs. AND, if someone in the dog/baby equation needs to be to moved or restrained or not be taken out in public it should be the dog, not the baby. What do you say, dog people?


PP here. Just want to add that I see your point here (bolded), but the thing is that most dog owners are of the mindset that "my dog is harmless, my dog doesn't bite, my dog is a good dog, etc." And although it may be true that their dog is a nice dog and has never bitten anyone thus far, there is always a first time and you never know what is going to spook a dog into triggering it to bite or lash out at someone. Therefore, I always move my kid out of the dog's way.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 12:44     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:It really freaks me out to read dog owners suggesting that other people need to be aware of the potential dangers of their dogs. I am not a dog person and optimistically assume that dog owners will act responsible. Is this foolish of me?

I often walk with my 1 year old down our block with him pushing his little toy cart (he is not walking yet). People walk their dogs on the sidewalk, and the dogs pass very close to my son. Sometimes my son reaches out for the dog, and sometimes the dog will get really close or even lick my baby.

Am I wrong in assuming that these dogs are safe around children or SURELY their owners would not let them get so close? Are the dog owners expecting me to move my child and his cart off the sidewalk or prevent him from reaching out at the dog because I should somehow know that their dog might bite my child? I obviously don't want my child to get hurt, but I dont want to teach him to be unreasonably afraid of dogs. AND, if someone in the dog/baby equation needs to be to moved or restrained or not be taken out in public it should be the dog, not the baby. What do you say, dog people?


I would modify your approach. I would NOT assume that dog owners are responsible. In fact, I assume the opposite. I don't trust any dogs. When I am out on the path with my toddler and a dog is approaching, I always either put myself between me and DC (and hold her hand), or pick her up. I would never let her come into close proximity with any strange dog.
Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 11:58     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
Anonymous wrote:I hope we can have a some what sane discussion of the topic of approaching strange dogs when they are on leash.
There is a proposal to put yellow ribbons on dogs that need their space because they are:

-a puppy in training learning to stay calm in large groups
-a dog that is skittish or fearful, but the owner is trying to de-sensitize it to large groups
-a dog that is "dog aggressive" that is, it is aggressive to other dogs only, so should not be approached by other dogs.

http://news.petmeds.com/article/view/id/800863748/n/obey-the-yellow-ribbon

I have a really unusually cute jack russell terrier puppy (10 months old). She is white with a brown spot and a black spot on her back. She has a shaggy soft beard on her muzzle. She is incredibly excitable. She will pee and then dart around in circles and lunge and lick. It is just amazing and AWFUL how often people invade our space and rush up to pet her. They will sometimes ask to pet her and when I say "no, she's really to excitable, they pet her anyway. THEY GET DOWN ON THEIR KNEES AND PUT THEIR FACES RIGHT INTO HERS AND SHE GOES INTO A ZIPPY, ZOOMY FRENZY. I stand off to the side in groups to try to ease her into it slowly. I am trying to teach her to be calm and observe groups of people without lunging into strangers faces and jumping on them. Terriers are SNAPPY sometimes. And generally just over excitable. If they are over-excited, they will sometimes nip. She has never bitten anyone! I guess I am asking:
Would people ever consider giving an overly excitable dog her space and just please stop swarming her? If I don't bring her to public places, she will never learn to be calm...I am not a crazy dog person who thinks that dogs have the right to be everywhere--but, how do folks feel about the yellow ribbon concept? Could you spread the word to your kids and neighbors that dogs with yellow ribbons tied on their leashes just need their space?


I thought this post was a joke!

I don't know who is nuttier, you or the dog. You had better ensure that your dog doesn't bite some poor innocent child or elderly person. It's your responsibility.

And NO, the yellow ribbon thing is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The responsibility belongs to YOU, not to some poor child walking down the street who has to figure out why your crazy peeing, nipping dog has a ribbon on its leash.

Let's leave the yellow ribbons to the military members who are serving their country!

Anonymous
Post 10/02/2012 11:50     Subject: Yellow Ribbons Dogs--Please Do not approach the dog...
It really freaks me out to read dog owners suggesting that other people need to be aware of the potential dangers of their dogs. I am not a dog person and optimistically assume that dog owners will act responsible. Is this foolish of me?

I often walk with my 1 year old down our block with him pushing his little toy cart (he is not walking yet). People walk their dogs on the sidewalk, and the dogs pass very close to my son. Sometimes my son reaches out for the dog, and sometimes the dog will get really close or even lick my baby.

Am I wrong in assuming that these dogs are safe around children or SURELY their owners would not let them get so close? Are the dog owners expecting me to move my child and his cart off the sidewalk or prevent him from reaching out at the dog because I should somehow know that their dog might bite my child? I obviously don't want my child to get hurt, but I dont want to teach him to be unreasonably afraid of dogs. AND, if someone in the dog/baby equation needs to be to moved or restrained or not be taken out in public it should be the dog, not the baby. What do you say, dog people?