French. Because it sounds cool and we love French films. Love it. Neither DW or I can speak another language - obviously we need subtitles.

Anonymous wrote:I would choose Mandarin first as its harder to learn and the opportunities to learn it later on are minimal. You can learn Spanish anywhere as long as you put in the time.

I agree. Every MD I know picked up enough Spanish during their medical training to be able to work at major urban medical centers even if they had not known any Spanish prior to entering med school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason language acquisition in upper elementary and high school is currently undervalued is because many adults learned another language that way and most are "no damn good at it". Americans are notoriously bad at foreign languages and starting when kids are 10 - 14 hasn't been successful hence the popularity of starting younger. Couldn't hurt...

The reason traditional foreign language classes don't work is because the students are never forced to communicate in the target language. They just spit out translations.... There is some value to this but there needs to be more focus on conversation to make it work.

The current immersion craze is all about using the language and even learning other subjects like math, social studies, etc in the target language. Conversations and discussions using the language are in content and not for the sole purpose of learning another language. Simply sounds like a better method...

I would choose Mandarin first as its harder to learn and the opportunities to learn it later on are minimal. You can learn Spanish anywhere as long as you put in the time.

Anonymous wrote:The reason language acquisition in upper elementary and high school is currently undervalued is because many adults learned another language that way and most are "no damn good at it". Americans are notoriously bad at foreign languages and starting when kids are 10 - 14 hasn't been successful hence the popularity of starting younger. Couldn't hurt...

The reason traditional foreign language classes don't work is because the students are never forced to communicate in the target language. They just spit out translations.... There is some value to this but there needs to be more focus on conversation to make it work.

The reason language acquisition in upper elementary and high school is currently undervalued is because many adults learned another language that way and most are "no damn good at it". Americans are notoriously bad at foreign languages and starting when kids are 10 - 14 hasn't been successful hence the popularity of starting younger. Couldn't hurt...

Anonymous wrote:Once a wk language classes don't do much. My BFF has had her son in a once a wk program in Mandarin for the past five yrs since he was five. He is nowhere near fluent but maybe advanced beginner in speaking and certainly not literate. It's a struggle to get him to speak Mandarin at all and almost always will answer back in English even when spoken to in Mandarin. She is fluent in Mandarin but her husband does not speak it. According to her, once a wk programs are not worth it.

PP here, who made that distinction in the first place: That depends on the age (which of course I should have added to my post). The traditional second language acquisition does not start at age 3 or 4 but in upper elementary or middle school. It's a very different process (and currently undervalued I claim) from language immersion, which seeks to roll learning another language into the process of learning one's "mother tongue". If the second route is what you bank on - probably at some loss of pronunciation but with possible gains in other areas - then it's still important to provide some early exposure to lay the ground work. That one hour a week does that at this age. Its goal is not fluency. The caveat of course is that language programs (and grades) for older children must matter and be high in quality.

That kids of foreign native speakers sooner or later address their parents in English while in an English-speaking context is as old as language mixing is, as old as civilization that is. No added hours will change that. It happens faster in families that also have English as a family language (e.g. because one spouse is American). There are few techniques that will stem this trend, even in the face of a parent who speaks not a word of English with their children.

Anonymous wrote:...But I do know that she'll be at a disadvantage amongst other Chinese kiddos there whose parents speak it in the home. But she was adopted at age 3, and then we started Lang. Stars at 4....

actually i'd not be surprised if she's top of her class. many these "Chinese kiddos" do not even want to be there and about half of them barely survived the pre-K classes.

Anonymous wrote:Once a wk language classes don't do much. My BFF has had her son in a once a wk program in Mandarin for the past five yrs since he was five. He is nowhere near fluent but maybe advanced beginner in speaking and certainly not literate. It's a struggle to get him to speak Mandarin at all and almost always will answer back in English even when spoken to in Mandarin. She is fluent in Mandarin but her husband does not speak it. According to her, once a wk programs are not worth it.

Agree that once a week programs are not worth it!

Once a wk language classes don't do much. My BFF has had her son in a once a wk program in Mandarin for the past five yrs since he was five. He is nowhere near fluent but maybe advanced beginner in speaking and certainly not literate. It's a struggle to get him to speak Mandarin at all and almost always will answer back in English even when spoken to in Mandarin. She is fluent in Mandarin but her husband does not speak it. According to her, once a wk programs are not worth it.

Mandarin, at Language Stars so far, for our 4.5yo, because :

1) She was adopted from China
2) I figure it is the hardest language to pick up and absorb around here, absent being put in a formal program. Spanish, yeah, you do hear it a LOT (and I love Spanish, do not get me wrong; that is what I learned in school) but I figured there are so many other optys to learn Spanish, whereas there are not many unless I put her in a school.

I think when she enters K, I can put her in one of the Saturday morning Chinese schools which I believe will be less $$$. But I do know that she'll be at a disadvantage amongst other Chinese kiddos there whose parents speak it in the home. But she was adopted at age 3, and then we started Lang. Stars at 4, so I am hoping that there is some vestigal recognition there that will be cultivated by this year in LS, and then we'll move up to the Chinese Sat. schools.

Shrug. We'll see! This is a learning process for me as a parent, that is for sure! I look forward to reading other parents' input....

Which language: Based on our family's experience and also reading through books about it here and there, a sustainable second/third language acquisition has to be connected to context, as it isn't an algorithm you learn. So, especially for the first (or only) foreign language to learn, pick one you can meaningfully sustain. For example, one that's connected to your family heritage, to your circles of friends, to where you live, to where you go on vacation, to where you/the child originated from, to the language you learned etc.

How to learn a second language: Immersion is hot but it discounts that traditional methods (exposure, learning languages in middle school) are also effective while possibly less taxing and disruptive to other areas of growth (e.g. Is is valid to make immersion work by spending afterschool time in tutoring lessons rather than sports or music programs?). If you choose the later acquisition model, also from personal experience and some reading, it's still important to facilitate that acquisition by early exposure, by leveraging whatever second language opportunities may come your way, and by building context for that acquisition.

Anonymous wrote:I speak 5 languages -- some very useful, others fairly useless.

I would say that the best gift you can give your child is the knowledge that learning a language is not that hard. If you know three languages well, learning a fourth is easier -- there is often shared vocabulary and grammar, but moreover you'll have experience in how to learn and study a language.

Which languages do you find the most useful?

I learned English as a child when I was 6. What I remember about it was that it was effortless nothing at all like learning French as an adult while living in France or learning German starting in 6th grade in the U.S.

My child attends a Chinese immersion school starting at age 4. Enjoys the language and the learning is effortless. I did not want to wait until DC was old enough to express a preference and lose the window in development when learning another language is so easy.

We spend a lot of tirme in Asia and that's the language everyone wants to know equal in popularity to English at this time. It depends on your family. We rarely spend time in Spanish speaking countries although my DH loves Rio - but they speak Portuguese and I love Spain. But for a young child, I prefer a harder language.

Anonymous wrote:I kind of agree, but isn't the learning of another language in elementary more for just experiencing learning another language? With this in mind, any of the languages would be fine. It's difficult to know whether any learning would be of particular use in a job. I think middle and high school is when you really learn a language. I hear by the end of 6th, most children at least in the one or two days a week classes can't even pass a level one test.

If you just want your child to have the experience of learning a foreign language then yes, any language is fine, but my interpretation of the whole immersion craze is that people finally caught on to the research that show you learn languages, easier, can achieve higher levels,of fluency when you begin learning as a child, which presupposes that you are interested in maintaining and reaping the benefits of that skill, either through continued study at a higher level or, eventually, through work, travel, etc.

I'm sure some people would be satisfied for their kids to do Chinese immersion for six years of elementary school and then never speak or study it again but to me it seems a missed opportunity. But I have a different view than a lot of people on children learning languages in that I don't think you can force them to learn and to a certain degree it is a gift and not everyone can learn other languages easily, even if they begin as children, unless they are in a true immersion situation. This is why I didn't feel comfortable choosing immersion for my kids even though I speak four languages, because I want them to choose it for themselves when they are interested and ready, which doesn't happen automatically when you are five.