Anonymous
09/19/2012 12:30
Subject: Re:Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violen
OP- I remember being five and can tell you that your child is capbale of understanding that when she is told to move on CENTER A she needs to do it. It doesn't matter that her preschool had a less formal structure/progressive model or whatever. I had no preschool and no structure before K but could understand when I was misbehaving. Instead of dealing with your child and letting her know that you understand that PRe-K was different but this is K and when they tell you to focus on this one thing she has to do it, you go and defend her to her school. I understand you wanting to protect your child's feelings, trust me as a mother I understand, but you are doing her a disservice but lowering your expectations for her and passing off her misbehavior as a problem with the school instead of dealing with the fact that she misbehaved.
She is receiving mixed messages. The school is punishing her for disrupting the class and you are telling her, by defending her, that is wasn't really her fault.
She is receiving mixed messages. The school is punishing her for disrupting the class and you are telling her, by defending her, that is wasn't really her fault.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 10:57
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
Good call on OP being the same as "unconditional parenting" OP. If not the same person, they would definitely enjoy hanging out and validating each other.
Sounds like one of the issues here is that, even if the classroom had a "thinking chair" or some other time out space, this child was refusing to move, either from that center or anywhere else. It's really crucial in the first month of school that all of the kindergartners understand the "social contract" that they need to enter into: the shared space they all must work in, the expectations being the same for all students, etc. If teacher hadn't acted, the student would have stopped the normal flow of the classroom for everybody. I don't think the kid committed a horrible sin, and I also think going to the principals office was an appropriate action that, if the OP will allow it, can lead to a positive outcome.
As for principal "yelling" I seriously doubt it. OP already mentioned child was sensitive, and as a recovering sensitive child myself, I get that a stern/firm voice translates into "yelling" in the mind of such a child.
Sounds like one of the issues here is that, even if the classroom had a "thinking chair" or some other time out space, this child was refusing to move, either from that center or anywhere else. It's really crucial in the first month of school that all of the kindergartners understand the "social contract" that they need to enter into: the shared space they all must work in, the expectations being the same for all students, etc. If teacher hadn't acted, the student would have stopped the normal flow of the classroom for everybody. I don't think the kid committed a horrible sin, and I also think going to the principals office was an appropriate action that, if the OP will allow it, can lead to a positive outcome.
As for principal "yelling" I seriously doubt it. OP already mentioned child was sensitive, and as a recovering sensitive child myself, I get that a stern/firm voice translates into "yelling" in the mind of such a child.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 10:32
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
Is this the same OP from the 'unconditional parenting' thread?
Even though your daughter came from a preschool with a different philosophy, your daughter at her age should be able to follow directions like standing line or moving to a center. she might question it as it is different or ask why or pout but to out and out refuse to do it sound more like a child who is used to getting what she wants.
I think the principal's office might be a bit extreme is this was an isolated event but it sounds like overall your daughter is not following direction. This is distracting to the other kids and also takes teacher time away from other kids and learning activities. It may be that your daughter's refusal to move was just one more incident in a list of similar incidents and the teacher decided it was time for her to talk to the principal to understand why it was important to do as she is asked. I also doubt the principal yelled at her.
I don't think that she is being teased - kids are responding to her behavior and she is sensitive to that.
I think you need to approach this as working with the school to help your daughter adjust rather than taking the "my daughter is a victim and everyone is out to get her' approach that you describe here. You are very defensive and that will carry over into your conversations and with school making it difficult for the teacher and principal to work in partnership with you.
Even though your daughter came from a preschool with a different philosophy, your daughter at her age should be able to follow directions like standing line or moving to a center. she might question it as it is different or ask why or pout but to out and out refuse to do it sound more like a child who is used to getting what she wants.
I think the principal's office might be a bit extreme is this was an isolated event but it sounds like overall your daughter is not following direction. This is distracting to the other kids and also takes teacher time away from other kids and learning activities. It may be that your daughter's refusal to move was just one more incident in a list of similar incidents and the teacher decided it was time for her to talk to the principal to understand why it was important to do as she is asked. I also doubt the principal yelled at her.
I don't think that she is being teased - kids are responding to her behavior and she is sensitive to that.
I think you need to approach this as working with the school to help your daughter adjust rather than taking the "my daughter is a victim and everyone is out to get her' approach that you describe here. You are very defensive and that will carry over into your conversations and with school making it difficult for the teacher and principal to work in partnership with you.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:35
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
In our DCPS school, we have had a calm down corner or thinking chair. Kids are sent there or can go there themselves. Being sent to the principal's office is for bigger deal things. If I were OP, I would try not to escalate the situation and show a willingness to work with the school.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:34
Subject: Re:Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violen
Anonymous wrote:You said, "The teacher said she initially gave her a moment of time to do this, but then did the countdown and took her to the Principals office."
First course of action: Gave her a moment to comply.
Second course of action: Counted down.
Third course: Principal's office.
It was the third course of action.
You seem to be looking for validation that the school was somehow in the wrong here, and with that validation, some implicit permission to confront the school about it. That's what I meant by confrontation. What I'm saying is all of our first instincts are that the school is somehow at fault when there is an incident affecting our children. But usually, it's really the child who has caused the problem.
I'm not sure you are quite there yet. But you need to be genuinely open with the possibility and focus your efforts on challenging your child to behave better rather than challenging the school on the way it handles disruptive children.
This response, and the PP's first one, are among the best I have read here on DCUM, especially when concerning issues in the classroom. OP, you would be well-advised to step back and consider PP's points here. Instead, you are immediately name-calling ("MCPS troll") and becoming defensive. This sounds like a situation for you to meet with the teacher and/or principal to discuss how you--and her teachers--can help your child adjust to kindergarten.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:31
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
Anonymous wrote:OP, I haven't heard of any school where time out is to sit in a corner... Not since the days when kids wore "dunce" hats, anyway.
My child's DCPCS kindergarten has a beanbag in a corner. It's the "thinking chair". There seems to be only a little stigma associated with five minutes in the thinking chair, nothing like being sent to the principal. There is also a chair outside the door, for when the thinking chair isn't sending a strong enough message. Sent to the principal is pretty bad.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:27
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
OP, I haven't heard of any school where time out is to sit in a corner... Not since the days when kids wore "dunce" hats, anyway.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:27
Subject: Re:Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violen
It sounds like the child needed to be removed from the room because it was distracting to the other children to have her there. If they have time-out space in the room it still may have been a distraction to have her in it. She is too young to sit out in the hallway unsupervised.
It sounds like she has a pattern of not listening so going to the principal seems like a logical approach.
She probably wasn't yelled at, rather spoken to in a harsher tone.
Hopefully your daughter came away with the fact that she needs to behave.
It sounds like she has a pattern of not listening so going to the principal seems like a logical approach.
She probably wasn't yelled at, rather spoken to in a harsher tone.
Hopefully your daughter came away with the fact that she needs to behave.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:25
Subject: Re:Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violen
OP, several posters have replied to you kindly, but to the point..
Sure "friends" may not feel comfortable letting you know the truth face to face which is why this board is helpful. Your friend not wanting to hurt you feelings is great... she cares about you but that's not what you are looking for here I would guess.
Sure "friends" may not feel comfortable letting you know the truth face to face which is why this board is helpful. Your friend not wanting to hurt you feelings is great... she cares about you but that's not what you are looking for here I would guess.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:22
Subject: Re:Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violen
Anonymous wrote:Wow, I guess none of you can understand the concept of asking a question. So you are inserting all kinds of weird assumptions. Actually its all of you who need to calm down.
I did not state that my child should be allowed to disrupt class. I dont feel she should be allowed to do this. So lets get that straight.
I did not state that the teacher should have taken any particular amount of time to deal with her. In fact I know she cant and I have assured her I get that. I said in my OP I disagreed that a person sitting out is necessarily a disruption of learning time. In other schools, people do a time out corner. Its a normal thing to do that takes care of the disruption by letting the person sit it out in a place assigned for that purpose..Apparently pointing out that the principals office does not appear to me the only viable solution is an incomprehensible and inappropriate question to all of you who responded thus far.
I merely asked the question if the principals office is MCPS kindergarten equivelant of the time out room. Apparently not because I have read other posts on here about kids not wanting to participate and being teased or taunted and they were not sent to the principals office.
The principals office is a totally appropriate place for certain behaviors. I was trying to understand why a person who, for example, taunts or teases my child is not addressed as disrupting the class if this taunting and teasing makes my child not want to participate. The teasing was left out of this discussion, but not out of my OP. So I am merely trying to understand the range of offenses that lead a kid to the principals office.
Hardly an odd question.
Its not entirely surprising to me that merely asking a question results in all this nastiness. Sigh. Oh well. None of this nastiness would come out in a face to face conversation, so I guess I should expect all this big entitled talk where anonymity is involved. I just wanted to know something more about the system. And boy, I learned more here than I ever have could elsewhere. So I will be done now. Dont bother responding, I wont be checking back. Go jump on someone else asking a question.
I know you "won't be back" OP but just in case. Here is the answer to your question: YES! IT IS NORMAL TO BE SENT TO THE PRINCIPAL'S OFFICE IN THIS CASE. NOT JUST IN MCPS BUT IN MOST SCHOOLS. ALSO, AS FAR AS THE CHILD WHO SUPPOSEDLY TEASED OR TAUNTED YOUR CHILD, ONE OF TWO ANSWERS EXPLAINS: 1) TEACHER TOOK CARE OF IT AND IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS HOW OR 2) YOUR CHILD WAS NOT ACTUALLY TEASED OR TAUNTED.
Sorry to have yelled but you're being so deaf and defensive to constructive comments that I'm just trying to answer your question as you wanted us to.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:19
Subject: Re:Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violen
OP, I think that you need to get a little perspective. This school thing is a marathon not a sprint.
This may sound strange, but I do not view a trip to the principal’s office in K as an awful thing that will brand your kid for life. I think it is a very valuable opportunity to teach DD about expectations and behavior.
One of the objectives of K is to educate kids on appropriate behavior in a classroom environment. Your DD came from a different pre-K experience and just needs time and guidance to get to the right place. I understand your need to emphasize that your DD comes from a different experience (though it does sound as if you are making excuses), but there are 17 other kids in the class. Not all of them are used to being in a structured classroom and you would be peeved if they interfered with your DD’s ability to learn.
My advice to you is to meet with the principal to get the facts and so you can clearly understand the discipline process. Do not go in there defensive or accusatory. Use it as an information gathering exercise. With respect to your DD (and she is the most important aspect of this), use this as a teaching moment. If you refuse to cooperate and misbehave, you will be removed from the classroom.
This may sound strange, but I do not view a trip to the principal’s office in K as an awful thing that will brand your kid for life. I think it is a very valuable opportunity to teach DD about expectations and behavior.
One of the objectives of K is to educate kids on appropriate behavior in a classroom environment. Your DD came from a different pre-K experience and just needs time and guidance to get to the right place. I understand your need to emphasize that your DD comes from a different experience (though it does sound as if you are making excuses), but there are 17 other kids in the class. Not all of them are used to being in a structured classroom and you would be peeved if they interfered with your DD’s ability to learn.
My advice to you is to meet with the principal to get the facts and so you can clearly understand the discipline process. Do not go in there defensive or accusatory. Use it as an information gathering exercise. With respect to your DD (and she is the most important aspect of this), use this as a teaching moment. If you refuse to cooperate and misbehave, you will be removed from the classroom.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:16
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
It is you, OP, that is adding the negativity to this discussion.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 09:12
Subject: Re:Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violen
Wow, I guess none of you can understand the concept of asking a question. So you are inserting all kinds of weird assumptions. Actually its all of you who need to calm down.
I did not state that my child should be allowed to disrupt class. I dont feel she should be allowed to do this. So lets get that straight.
I did not state that the teacher should have taken any particular amount of time to deal with her. In fact I know she cant and I have assured her I get that. I said in my OP I disagreed that a person sitting out is necessarily a disruption of learning time. In other schools, people do a time out corner. Its a normal thing to do that takes care of the disruption by letting the person sit it out in a place assigned for that purpose..Apparently pointing out that the principals office does not appear to me the only viable solution is an incomprehensible and inappropriate question to all of you who responded thus far.
I merely asked the question if the principals office is MCPS kindergarten equivelant of the time out room. Apparently not because I have read other posts on here about kids not wanting to participate and being teased or taunted and they were not sent to the principals office.
The principals office is a totally appropriate place for certain behaviors. I was trying to understand why a person who, for example, taunts or teases my child is not addressed as disrupting the class if this taunting and teasing makes my child not want to participate. The teasing was left out of this discussion, but not out of my OP. So I am merely trying to understand the range of offenses that lead a kid to the principals office.
Hardly an odd question.
Its not entirely surprising to me that merely asking a question results in all this nastiness. Sigh. Oh well. None of this nastiness would come out in a face to face conversation, so I guess I should expect all this big entitled talk where anonymity is involved. I just wanted to know something more about the system. And boy, I learned more here than I ever have could elsewhere. So I will be done now. Dont bother responding, I wont be checking back. Go jump on someone else asking a question.
I did not state that my child should be allowed to disrupt class. I dont feel she should be allowed to do this. So lets get that straight.
I did not state that the teacher should have taken any particular amount of time to deal with her. In fact I know she cant and I have assured her I get that. I said in my OP I disagreed that a person sitting out is necessarily a disruption of learning time. In other schools, people do a time out corner. Its a normal thing to do that takes care of the disruption by letting the person sit it out in a place assigned for that purpose..Apparently pointing out that the principals office does not appear to me the only viable solution is an incomprehensible and inappropriate question to all of you who responded thus far.
I merely asked the question if the principals office is MCPS kindergarten equivelant of the time out room. Apparently not because I have read other posts on here about kids not wanting to participate and being teased or taunted and they were not sent to the principals office.
The principals office is a totally appropriate place for certain behaviors. I was trying to understand why a person who, for example, taunts or teases my child is not addressed as disrupting the class if this taunting and teasing makes my child not want to participate. The teasing was left out of this discussion, but not out of my OP. So I am merely trying to understand the range of offenses that lead a kid to the principals office.
Hardly an odd question.
Its not entirely surprising to me that merely asking a question results in all this nastiness. Sigh. Oh well. None of this nastiness would come out in a face to face conversation, so I guess I should expect all this big entitled talk where anonymity is involved. I just wanted to know something more about the system. And boy, I learned more here than I ever have could elsewhere. So I will be done now. Dont bother responding, I wont be checking back. Go jump on someone else asking a question.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 08:47
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
8:37 again. I just wanted to add that I think you have a very weird attitude towards the orincipal's office. We view the principal as yet another partner, albeit one that might not be consulted every day. When my kindergartner threw a fit the other morning, I was very grateful that the principal took her to her office so they could talk it out without disturbing everyone. Obviously, it would have been best if there was no fit but this stuff happens at this age, and it is great to have additional resources to call on so tht every kid is not disturbed by the one that can't hande it that day.
Before you call me a shill, my kid is in a DC Charter.
Before you call me a shill, my kid is in a DC Charter.
Anonymous
09/19/2012 08:37
Subject: Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?
How long is the class supposed to have to wait while your child gets her act together? She was given a moment, then a countdown, should all the other kids have had to wait even longer to get on with learning? You have a very selfish attitude towards the classroom experience.