Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It can bother you till the cows come home that "those" kids are in that school but they will still be attending that school.

I am thrilled that children are in any school. Hopefully they are learning English.

I am sure they are learning English and hopefully, Spanish will be taught as a second langauge. 8)

I think that would be great! But first, let's get all the kids out of trailers, and make the class sizes lower than 30 kids in a classroom, and adjust the lunch schedules so kids are not having lunch at 10:15 am when they start school at 9 am. Take care of all those things first[b] and then think about teaching Spanish.

I agree. But the argument being made by Mr./Mrs. Swoooooooooooosh was that because the children were Hispanic they,by definition, did not speak English and should not be taught a foriegn language. But, yes, there are other priorities in a cash strapped district.

Based on what the OP wrote about her child's school and looking at the list of new FLES schools, all signs point to Rose Hill ES. The other schools listed either had too few students or really small Hispanic populations or didn't have Spanish as the FLES language.

Here are the Rose Hill demographics from 2011 (couldn't get any from 2012 yet)
729 students
--28% of students qualifying for ESOL services
--49% Hispanic
--33% identified as Limited English Proficient

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It can bother you till the cows come home that "those" kids are in that school but they will still be attending that school.

I am thrilled that children are in any school. Hopefully they are learning English.

I am sure they are learning English and hopefully, Spanish will be taught as a second langauge. 8)

I think that would be great! But first, let's get all the kids out of trailers, and make the class sizes lower than 30 kids in a classroom, and adjust the lunch schedules so kids are not having lunch at 10:15 am when they start school at 9 am. Take care of all those things first[b] and then think about teaching Spanish.

Anonymous wrote:As a bilingual teacher and parent, I can sadly report that many of the kids who speak a second language cannot read it or write it. That could be addressed through this program. Also, I don't know about FCPS, but in APS the FLES funding is also a way to lengthen the school day and end early release Wednesdays. Spanish instruction can also be accompanied by additional music or art in this program, depends.

OP here. The day is not being extended and the kids still have early release on Monday. According to the letter that came home, there will be no homework but kids will keep a "portfolio" of what's done in the twice weekly sessions. At our school, almost 33% of the kids are Limited English Proficiency. It's a majority Hispanic school but not all of those who are LEP are Spanish speakers. I suppose if an additional language had to be introduced, Spanish would be the one that best the student population.

But, I was sorry to see in the school board notes (provided in the link posted by a PP) that "The expansion of Foreign Language in the Elementary
Schools (FLES) to eight new sites requires one fewer teacher position based on the student enrollment of the selected schools. The change in position count results in the savings of $75,197. " We're happy with the school but the kids have a lot of academic/economic challenges and it seems FLES comes at a high price - one less teacher and less time in the day for core curriculum. I don't know enough to say if it's worth it but you've got to question whether resources are being used in the right areas. FCPS should provide some additional context to their statements about the benefits of learning a foreign language. What if the language being targeted isn't a 'foreign' language to you? What if it's your third langague? Would it be better make sure every kid has breakfast and more movement opportunitites? I don't know.

P.S. Your selective redacting skills are beyond compare, and I would hire you as my legal assistant in a hearbeat!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It can bother you till the cows come home that "those" kids are in that school but they will still be attending that school.

I am thrilled that children are in any school. Hopefully they are learning English.

I am sure they are learning English and hopefully, Spanish will be taught as a second langauge. 8)

Anonymous wrote:
It can bother you till the cows come home that "those" kids are in that school but they will still be attending that school.

I am thrilled that children are in any school. Hopefully they are learning English.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My thought is making a majority Hispanic school a FLES school for Spanish should be a far lesser priority than teaching everyone English, be it through standard language arts instruction or ESOL resources.

I can think of better ways to spend the FCPS budget.

Anonymous wrote:So the basic premise of your argument is that these children being brown and having Spanish surnames and possibly having Spanish speaking parents would BY DEFINITION of their ethnicity and heritage NOT know English.

SWOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSH

There goes a logic leap.

Anonymous wrote:
You have actual facts to back up the fact that ALL of these kids don't speak English and not just the ESOL ones???????? Well if that were the case, that these kids don't know English at all, then you are correct. The first line of business would be to teach them English because that would be the pathway to success. A foriegn langauge would be a secondary concern.

The OP stated:

Anonymous wrote: I can't pull up the FCPS website right now (I think it's down) but pretty much all those kids do speak Spanish and there is a sizeable minority of kids that speak languages at home other than Spanish/English.

Is that ALL of the 700 students? I am certain it is not. It might be 699. Or perhaps it is 698. Therefore, it would not be "all."

But I read "pretty much all those kids do speak Spanish and there is a sizeable minority of kids that speak languages at home other than Spanish/English" as mostly speakers of languages other than English. I interpret the word "mostly" as a majority of students.

Therefore, I am glad that you agree with me.

You are also very astutely figured out that when one's argument fails to hold water resorting to distractions such as "SWOOOOSSSHHH is always the safer route. Because if you were to actually try to put together a logical argument, it would fail.

It can bother you till the cows come home that "those" kids are in that school but they will still be attending that school.

Anonymous wrote:
My thought is making a majority Hispanic school a FLES school for Spanish should be a far lesser priority than teaching everyone English, be it through standard language arts instruction or ESOL resources.

I can think of better ways to spend the FCPS budget.

Anonymous wrote:So the basic premise of your argument is that these children being brown and having Spanish surnames and possibly having Spanish speaking parents would BY DEFINITION of their ethnicity and heritage NOT know English.

SWOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSH

There goes a logic leap.

Anonymous wrote:
You have actual facts to back up the fact that ALL of these kids don't speak English and not just the ESOL ones???????? Well if that were the case, that these kids don't know English at all, then you are correct. The first line of business would be to teach them English because that would be the pathway to success. A foriegn langauge would be a secondary concern.

The OP stated:

Anonymous wrote: I can't pull up the FCPS website right now (I think it's down) but pretty much all those kids do speak Spanish and there is a sizeable minority of kids that speak languages at home other than Spanish/English.

Is that ALL of the 700 students? I am certain it is not. It might be 699. Or perhaps it is 698. Therefore, it would not be "all."

But I read "pretty much all those kids do speak Spanish and there is a sizeable minority of kids that speak languages at home other than Spanish/English" as mostly speakers of languages other than English. I interpret the word "mostly" as a majority of students.

Therefore, I am glad that you agree with me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I meant by above what would be the best use of resources is in terms of what second langauge to teach as a foreign langauge? OR is it your premise that because these children are hispanic they should not be taught ANY foriegn langauge becuase their exposure to Spanish verbally at home is essentially the same as full mastery of a language and therefore they should not be given the benefit of being taught a second langauge?

My thought is making a majority Hispanic school a FLES school for Spanish should be a far lesser priority than teaching everyone English, be it through standard language arts instruction or ESOL resources.

I can think of better ways to spend the FCPS budget.

So the basic premise of your argument is that these children being brown and having Spanish surnames and possibly having Spanish speaking parents would BY DEFINITION of their ethnicity and heritage NOT know English. You have actual facts to back up the fact that ALL of these kids don't speak English and not just the ESOL ones???????? Well if that were the case, that these kids don't know English at all, then you are correct. The first line of business would be to teach them English because that would be the pathway to success. A foriegn langauge would be a secondary concern. However, the basic premise of your arugment is flawed and your resulting argument is therefore flawed because you are just assuming that being majority Hispanic means that these kids don't speak English.

-signed fluent speaker of English who arrived in the U.S. at the age of 4 and never needed ESOL but took Spanish in HS and College

Anonymous wrote:Right, we're ignorant. But the Hispanic families who make no effort to ensure their children speak English in the USA, they're just peachy.

And the taxpayers get to pick up their slack. Swell!

I love how you resorted to coded language. Who is this "we"?. I said you are uninformed I don't know what "we" you are a part of that I am somehow not a part of. You are dense so I won't waste much energy on this but it breaks down to this 1) the kids that don't speak English and therefore are "just peachy" are ESOL students but 2) the kids that are English speaking but have Spanish speaking parents that would be taking the Spanish as a second language along with all the other English speaking students.

Anonymous wrote:What I meant by above what would be the best use of resources is in terms of what second langauge to teach as a foreign langauge? OR is it your premise that because these children are hispanic they should not be taught ANY foriegn langauge becuase their exposure to Spanish verbally at home is essentially the same as full mastery of a language and therefore they should not be given the benefit of being taught a second langauge?

My thought is making a majority Hispanic school a FLES school for Spanish should be a far lesser priority than teaching everyone English, be it through standard language arts instruction or ESOL resources.

I can think of better ways to spend the FCPS budget.

Right, we're ignorant. But the Hispanic families who make no effort to ensure their children speak English in the USA, they're just peachy.

And the taxpayers get to pick up their slack. Swell!

What I meant by above what would be the best use of resources is in terms of what second langauge to teach as a foreign langauge? OR is it your premise that because these children are hispanic they should not be taught ANY foriegn langauge becuase their exposure to Spanish verbally at home is essentially the same as full mastery of a language and therefore they should not be given the benefit of being taught a second langauge?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking Spanish in those households may be all that goes on. The parents may not be able to read and write in Spanish and neither may their children.

If they are attending public schools, shouldn't the kids be learning English? Isn't that what ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) is for?

Yes, they are learning English but Spanish as a second language. ESOL is mainly for if you have probelms with English. But if you speak English just fine because your were born and raised here but you happen to be exposed to Spanish at home it makes no sense to forbid that child from taking Spanish as a second langauge. I am betting that if the second language being taught at schools were French you wouldn't have a problem with it and wouldn't even bring up ESOL.

If kids speak English at home and they speak it just fine, I have no problems with them studying whatever world language they want. But the PP stated that "speaking Spanish in those households may be all that goes on." You are comparing two totally different scenarios.Why would I want to suggest confusing matters even more and offering French? That makes no sense.

You can speak English just fine and still hear Spanish at home, speak English at home, and the parents ONLY speak Spanish or the kids speak a small bit of Spanish to the parents to be understood by them. I am not comaring two totally different scenarios you just seemed misinformed as to what goes on in most of these households. The scenarios are exactly the same- i.e. you speak "just fine in English" but "speaking Spanish in those households may be all [or mostly] all that goes on.

You are either being obtuse or are feigning ignorance about the intent of your comments. You don't understand why Spanish would be offered as a second language to kids because Spanish is spoken at their home even if the child is an English speaker. You confused ESOL for Spanish being taught as a second language. My point was that the Spanish was being taught as a foriegn language to these kids and the fact that Spanish is spoken in their home does not mean that 1) they speak Spanish fluently 2) they are able to read and write in correct form in Spanish 3) does not negate that a second language at school - in this case Spanish would be a good thing and 4) teaching Spanish as a foriegn language is not the same as ESOL becuase those kids are kids that have difficulty with English.

I mentioned French because your issue seemed to be teaching Spanish as the foriegn langauge when Spamish is spoken at home and it seemed to be what was confusing you. Would you take issue with French being taught as a foriegn language because the premise of the OP seemed to be that because these kids are Hispanic then they should not be taught Spanish as a seocnd langauge? Which begs the question if they know English ans Spanish is not "appropriate" as the foreign language, then what woul dbe the best use of resources?