But aren't they more qualified?
Shouldn't a teacher with 10yrs experience and a M.Ed. get paid more than a teacher 2yrs out of undergrad?

People with better qualifications and more experience get paid more in the private sector, no? Why should it be different when teaching? I don't think it should be only based on years/degrees, but to not take either into account at all seems ridiculous.

No. Better teachers should be paid more, but more degrees does not necessarily equal better teaching.

Anonymous wrote:
No one is forced to be a teacher. You know what you are going to get paid when you enter the profession. All lawyers have a law degree. You pay more for the ones with more experience, not more law degrees.

Yes, we want our children to be taught be the unambitious, the uneducated, and the inexperienced. And, we want the best education system in the world. And, cheap. We want it cheap.

Anonymous wrote:As a former CPS teacher, I have to say that unless YOU have been a CPS teacher, you have no business having any opinion. The fact that the schools are horrible is not because teachers aren't doing their job. Yes, there are some teachers that are terrible, just like EVERY OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE COUNTRY. But every single one of my former colleagues busted their ass to do the best job with the meager resources and support they received. So unless you actually know what you are talking about, I suggest you STFU.

Interesting. I work for Congress, does that mean I can say - unless YOU have worked for Congress, you have no business having any opinion?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my friends is a CPS elementary teacher. Here's what she said about the issue:
The Board of Ed wants a 5 year contract with 2% raise the 1st year, then up to 2% each year after that based increased test scores, grades, & parent review or in my case - principal and parent review (I have a brand new principal with NO experience & she doesn't ever leave the office so she hasn't a clue what we do. She has NO experience ever dealing with children 3 to 13 in education). They want to get rid of capping off class size - so far I have 30 2nd graders (5th grade has 38 in her classroom right now, no aide and Kindergarten is full time with 35, no aide), and the BoE wants to eliminate all step or lane raises counting years of service and set the salary the same for everyone regardless of how much schooling you've had or how many years you've been in the system so basically pay everyone the same even though most of us have at least one or two Masters degrees. Not looking pretty at all.

The parents ARE in an uproar! They've joined us at rallies and they've formed groups to protest what he's doing to our children. Rahm could care less as long as he's known as the dude who broke up one of the largest unions here and made education what he thinks it should be. To top that off, he's mandating recess for all schools - even the schools without playgrounds (not sure how that works out for them) and schools in high crime areas in which shootings happen day, night, all the time (Heaven help these children). He says "it's good for the kids to get out." I don't care so much for the raise, but it's the working conditions I care about. He wants teachers/staff to work 15 days longer a year, 3 hours more a day without paying for the time. He's set the schedule for us to teach 7 hours and then meet with parents for 5 hours immediately afterwards for conference twice a year. Wanna bet we're not going to be the most pleasant people?




Now, I disagree with her on some things (DC has a similar recess requirement with crappy facilities as well), but to totally get rid of step increases and incentives for graduate degrees? And not capping class size?

Anyway, this is what she's heard. She's worried and upset about the whole thing and hates that this is going on.

That is always the point where teachers lose me. I will defend you like crazy on working more than 10 months a year or only 7-8 hours a day but to base pay simply on education level is ridiculous. Please.

The thing is, in professions where pay is based on performance (like law, sales, finance), people make much more money than teachers; they have the potential to earn 5 or 10 times what teachers make. So yes, teachers get automatic raises, but the raises and overall pay is so very small. It's a tradeoff for making a commitment to a service profession.

No one is forced to be a teacher. You know what you are going to get paid when you enter the profession. All lawyers have a law degree. You pay more for the ones with more experience, not more law degrees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand the lack of sympathy for their cause. How are unions bad? Why are teachers not the most highly paid professionals?

the union is bad because they are a big factor in why these kids are not getting properly educated. #1.

they work 10 months a year and 7-8 hours a day. #2.

their benefits are incredible. #3

my salary has gone down 15% in the last 3 years. look around. #4.

Ok, unions in the classroom is the reason why kids are not learning
10 months a year? So what
Incredible benefits? Well, it is not like we are talking about janitors working for the government.

Has anyone mentioned the class size, poor working conditions, kids who actually need breakfeast, because otherwise are too hungry to learn
Kids who have to work part time to help the family get by
Kids of migrant laborers

Pp, you can become a teacher if you want.

For those complaining about teachers with masters degrees, I think you are dumb

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:then find a way to measure improvement if the baseline is horrible. bottom line, it makes no sense for taxpayers to pay for step raises year after year for bad teachers. just because you are a 25 year cynical veteran of a dysfunctional school system does not mean you are any good. I'd rather keep young teachers for short 5-year terms before they burn out.

TEACHER UNIONS ARE THE ENEMY! Come on, they are. You know it, I know it. Public education is crippling for these inner cities kids. The families need more choices, and the schools need more competition.

No, they need to run the school system in its entirety in a smarter way. If you are supportive of your employees, they perform well. That's a proven outcome over any employment model. Everyone is getting bogged down in minor details, when they should be looking at the system as a whole.

hahahahhahahahahahahahha. Stupid. You obviously don't know public school teachers. Anyway people who earn up to $150k striking on national TV is great footage for the election. Obama, call your people.

I don't know any public school teachers making $150k, and I've been a public school teacher for over a decade. I've worked in one of the best performing school districts in the country and sent hundreds of my students off to Ivy League schools, and I can tell you that the schools with the best working conditions get the best teachers. We're not in it for the money, but it is an insult not to increase our pay to keep up with inflation and reflect our growing expertise as we go from novice teachers to 10+ years of experience.

A lot of the public thinks that teachers don't get better with experience, but I can tell you that even the most brilliant novice teachers, like Teach for America teachers, learn a lot on the job and get better with experience. When you aren't in schools day after day year after year you don't see the growth that happens over time. You also don't see the work that teachers put in before and after school or the difference between a lesson taught the first time and the same lesson taught the third or fourth time.

We all know that with the cost of fuel, food and (in places like Chicago) housing housing going up, not giving teachers a raise is the same thing as cutting their pay. We need to pay teachers enough so that they can raise and educate their own kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my friends is a CPS elementary teacher. Here's what she said about the issue:
The Board of Ed wants a 5 year contract with 2% raise the 1st year, then up to 2% each year after that based increased test scores, grades, & parent review or in my case - principal and parent review (I have a brand new principal with NO experience & she doesn't ever leave the office so she hasn't a clue what we do. She has NO experience ever dealing with children 3 to 13 in education). They want to get rid of capping off class size - so far I have 30 2nd graders (5th grade has 38 in her classroom right now, no aide and Kindergarten is full time with 35, no aide), and the BoE wants to eliminate all step or lane raises counting years of service and set the salary the same for everyone regardless of how much schooling you've had or how many years you've been in the system so basically pay everyone the same even though most of us have at least one or two Masters degrees. Not looking pretty at all.

The parents ARE in an uproar! They've joined us at rallies and they've formed groups to protest what he's doing to our children. Rahm could care less as long as he's known as the dude who broke up one of the largest unions here and made education what he thinks it should be. To top that off, he's mandating recess for all schools - even the schools without playgrounds (not sure how that works out for them) and schools in high crime areas in which shootings happen day, night, all the time (Heaven help these children). He says "it's good for the kids to get out." I don't care so much for the raise, but it's the working conditions I care about. He wants teachers/staff to work 15 days longer a year, 3 hours more a day without paying for the time. He's set the schedule for us to teach 7 hours and then meet with parents for 5 hours immediately afterwards for conference twice a year. Wanna bet we're not going to be the most pleasant people?




Now, I disagree with her on some things (DC has a similar recess requirement with crappy facilities as well), but to totally get rid of step increases and incentives for graduate degrees? And not capping class size?

Anyway, this is what she's heard. She's worried and upset about the whole thing and hates that this is going on.

That is always the point where teachers lose me. I will defend you like crazy on working more than 10 months a year or only 7-8 hours a day but to base pay simply on education level is ridiculous. Please.

The thing is, in professions where pay is based on performance (like law, sales, finance), people make much more money than teachers; they have the potential to earn 5 or 10 times what teachers make. So yes, teachers get automatic raises, but the raises and overall pay is so very small. It's a tradeoff for making a commitment to a service profession.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not generally a fan of the unions, but I do highly value education. And I do think the teachers' union has a legitimate concern with tying children's standardized test scores to a teacher's performance evaluation. If you have a class of lower-income, at-risk children, you are much more likely to have lower test scores. Unless there is some method of protection in the evaluation system that accounts for this, such a performance measure could be disasterous for many otherwise great teachers.

I understand the need for objective criteria that measures performance. This likely is one of those government ideas that sounds great on paper, but causes all kinds of trouble in practice.

+1 Amen. Teachers cannot substitute for parents and cannot counteract poor health, diet and parenting choices all of which they have NO control over. They can do their damndest, but they aren't God.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But aren't they more qualified?
Shouldn't a teacher with 10yrs experience and a M.Ed. get paid more than a teacher 2yrs out of undergrad?

People with better qualifications and more experience get paid more in the private sector, no? Why should it be different when teaching? I don't think it should be only based on years/degrees, but to not take either into account at all seems ridiculous.

But why should a newly minted teacher with two masters make more than a teacher who has been teaching for 5 years with excellent reviews and no masters? No, that isn't how the private sector works.

those master degrees are a joke and a waste. good teachers should get paid more, not those older with silly degrees.

Anonymous wrote:But aren't they more qualified?
Shouldn't a teacher with 10yrs experience and a M.Ed. get paid more than a teacher 2yrs out of undergrad?

People with better qualifications and more experience get paid more in the private sector, no? Why should it be different when teaching? I don't think it should be only based on years/degrees, but to not take either into account at all seems ridiculous.

But why should a newly minted teacher with two masters make more than a teacher who has been teaching for 5 years with excellent reviews and no masters? No, that isn't how the private sector works.

Here is the head of the Chicago Teacher's Union. Sounds like a wonderful "educator."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1YXOSaMZzs

But aren't they more qualified?
Shouldn't a teacher with 10yrs experience and a M.Ed. get paid more than a teacher 2yrs out of undergrad?

People with better qualifications and more experience get paid more in the private sector, no? Why should it be different when teaching? I don't think it should be only based on years/degrees, but to not take either into account at all seems ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:One of my friends is a CPS elementary teacher. Here's what she said about the issue:
The Board of Ed wants a 5 year contract with 2% raise the 1st year, then up to 2% each year after that based increased test scores, grades, & parent review or in my case - principal and parent review (I have a brand new principal with NO experience & she doesn't ever leave the office so she hasn't a clue what we do. She has NO experience ever dealing with children 3 to 13 in education). They want to get rid of capping off class size - so far I have 30 2nd graders (5th grade has 38 in her classroom right now, no aide and Kindergarten is full time with 35, no aide), and the BoE wants to eliminate all step or lane raises counting years of service and set the salary the same for everyone regardless of how much schooling you've had or how many years you've been in the system so basically pay everyone the same even though most of us have at least one or two Masters degrees. Not looking pretty at all.

The parents ARE in an uproar! They've joined us at rallies and they've formed groups to protest what he's doing to our children. Rahm could care less as long as he's known as the dude who broke up one of the largest unions here and made education what he thinks it should be. To top that off, he's mandating recess for all schools - even the schools without playgrounds (not sure how that works out for them) and schools in high crime areas in which shootings happen day, night, all the time (Heaven help these children). He says "it's good for the kids to get out." I don't care so much for the raise, but it's the working conditions I care about. He wants teachers/staff to work 15 days longer a year, 3 hours more a day without paying for the time. He's set the schedule for us to teach 7 hours and then meet with parents for 5 hours immediately afterwards for conference twice a year. Wanna bet we're not going to be the most pleasant people?




Now, I disagree with her on some things (DC has a similar recess requirement with crappy facilities as well), but to totally get rid of step increases and incentives for graduate degrees? And not capping class size?

Anyway, this is what she's heard. She's worried and upset about the whole thing and hates that this is going on.

That is always the point where teachers lose me. I will defend you like crazy on working more than 10 months a year or only 7-8 hours a day but to base pay simply on education level is ridiculous. Please.

One of my friends is a CPS elementary teacher. Here's what she said about the issue:
The Board of Ed wants a 5 year contract with 2% raise the 1st year, then up to 2% each year after that based increased test scores, grades, & parent review or in my case - principal and parent review (I have a brand new principal with NO experience & she doesn't ever leave the office so she hasn't a clue what we do. She has NO experience ever dealing with children 3 to 13 in education). They want to get rid of capping off class size - so far I have 30 2nd graders (5th grade has 38 in her classroom right now, no aide and Kindergarten is full time with 35, no aide), and the BoE wants to eliminate all step or lane raises counting years of service and set the salary the same for everyone regardless of how much schooling you've had or how many years you've been in the system so basically pay everyone the same even though most of us have at least one or two Masters degrees. Not looking pretty at all.

The parents ARE in an uproar! They've joined us at rallies and they've formed groups to protest what he's doing to our children. Rahm could care less as long as he's known as the dude who broke up one of the largest unions here and made education what he thinks it should be. To top that off, he's mandating recess for all schools - even the schools without playgrounds (not sure how that works out for them) and schools in high crime areas in which shootings happen day, night, all the time (Heaven help these children). He says "it's good for the kids to get out." I don't care so much for the raise, but it's the working conditions I care about. He wants teachers/staff to work 15 days longer a year, 3 hours more a day without paying for the time. He's set the schedule for us to teach 7 hours and then meet with parents for 5 hours immediately afterwards for conference twice a year. Wanna bet we're not going to be the most pleasant people?




Now, I disagree with her on some things (DC has a similar recess requirement with crappy facilities as well), but to totally get rid of step increases and incentives for graduate degrees? And not capping class size?

Anyway, this is what she's heard. She's worried and upset about the whole thing and hates that this is going on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not understand the lack of sympathy for their cause. How are unions bad? Why are teachers not the most highly paid professionals?

they work 10 months a year and 7-8 hours a day. #2.

Whoa, whoa. Hang on. I'm the PP who taught in NJ and you have a few things to learn.
Teachers are standing in front of a classroom for that amount of time.

Now follow one home and see what they do after school and before they go to bed. And on weekends.
Then get back to us. Good luck with all this.