I messed up the pronoun situation by removing a reference to MIL without the appropriate changes afterwards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, wrong forum. Jeff and his acolytes shout over reasoned discourse. We hang in other places.

Where do you hang? Seriously, I would love to see intelligent conservative discourse.

Me too! I'm open.

PP who claims it's just the crazies: no, it isn't. The birthers have much more influence than they should. And as for the conspiracy theorists, they're more often equal opportunity anti-government types and pseudo-libertarians than far left.

I think that when there's calculated lying, the real pants-on-fire stuff, from powerful folk like candidates, we are seeing one of two things. There's the belief that because they're on the side of right, they can do and say anything that achieves the goal of gaining power in order to make change. It's a war, and all's fair, even blatant lying and cheating. Or, there's that bizarre cognitive wrinkle displayed by some conservatives in which there is such a strong reaction to evidence against their position that they double down and believe harder. This is where the fear-based distortions come in.

Then there's the powerful in-group identification thing that makes it difficult for some conservatives to impute sound motives to people with whom they don't identify. I think the real dumb and crazy people, like my in-laws, cannot handle his blackness, of course, but also his foreignness - the name, the time spent in Indonesia. Those facts make it impossible for her to see other points of commonality; as the son of a single mother who struggled financially, he has more in common with her own son than with lucky sperm club folks like Bush and Romney. She just can't see it. And because she's dumb and crazy, and everything's so black and white for her, his out group status makes him one step from the devil. She can believe anything about him.

So, you know, SIL posts this bullshit article with the headline "Obamacare begins child sterilization without consent." It sounds at first as though the ACA is mandating sterilization of teenagers. And what it actually is is a bizarre juxtaposition of the ACA's requirement that insurance companies cover all birth control technologies without a copayment with a pre-existing Oregon law mandating a specific consent form for people 15-20 requesting sterilization. This consent form is designed to discourage the procedure in the strongest possible terms.

So I point this out, and MIL responds that she just doesn't think that doctors should be forced to perform procedures to which they have a moral objection.

Um. Uh. You see that? Totally fabricated. She is not only unable to accept that the article is a distortion, but she has *added* information that was not in the article. She's not even lying, exactly; she literally does not relate to the truth. It's irrelevant.

I'm not a republican, but this is just an ignorant question. Democrats lie all the time, as do Republicans - it's the game of politics. Haven't you heard people on the far left that claim Bush actually orchestrated 9/11?? They're the same sort of Dems as the far right R's that claim Obama is a Muslim.

Again, ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:The types of lies you are pointing out (Obama a Muslim) are from the crazies. Every party has those.

But other than that, I think that conservatives and liberals just see things so fundamentally differently. It's very hard to relate to one another anymore. So things can often sound like lies when people don't mean them that way.

I haven't seen one post on DCUM stating obama is muslim.

The types of lies you are pointing out (Obama a Muslim) are from the crazies. Every party has those.

But other than that, I think that conservatives and liberals just see things so fundamentally differently. It's very hard to relate to one another anymore. So things can often sound like lies when people don't mean them that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, wrong forum. Jeff and his acolytes shout over reasoned discourse. We hang in other places.

Where do you hang? Seriously, I would love to see intelligent conservative discourse.

democraticunderground.com (one sided conversations)

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, wrong forum. Jeff and his acolytes shout over reasoned discourse. We hang in other places.

Where do you hang? Seriously, I would love to see intelligent conservative discourse.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My serious question remains, why fabricate things about Obama when there are plenty of genuine differences of policies etc. to exploit?

Because the genuine policy differences are not favorable to the Republicans. Do you think Republicans want the American people to know that the Romney/Ryan plan for Medicare is to replace a defined benefits program with vouchers? Do you think they want people to know that the R/R budget decimates domestic programs while increasing defense spending? That the R/R tax plan lowers Romney's tax rate to less than 1%? Do you think they want to discuss the real impact of repealing Obamacare? Of course, they don't want to talk about any of these things. So, they fabricate things.

as you see, OP, that's why you don't get thoughtful conservatives here. Politics is a full contact sport. I don't doubt you're asking a serious question--it's your choice whether to choose to magnify the impact of repub wingnuts. I read plenty of fundraising letters and there's plenty of lying to go around.

My Q back would be--why can't Dems accept that conservative care about people of all classes too, they just have different ways to problem solve? One easy example is education vouchers, for which the right was villified for, oh, decades, and now is gaining acceptance from the left as one way to instill some competition and raise education standards for the underserved. I find when a conservative starts asking real questions--

--why do we spend money on this n that program for the poor? what is the outcome? is there a better way? why has public school staffing increased 60% or more since 1970 when enrollment has increased 8%? are we getting better educated kids?

we first have a decade of being called heartless assholes until some community gives it a try and..whattdya know..gets some results.

Seriously, wrong forum. Jeff and his acolytes shout over reasoned discourse. We hang in other places.

Anonymous wrote:
My serious question remains, why fabricate things about Obama when there are plenty of genuine differences of policies etc. to exploit?

Because the genuine policy differences are not favorable to the Republicans. Do you think Republicans want the American people to know that the Romney/Ryan plan for Medicare is to replace a defined benefits program with vouchers? Do you think they want people to know that the R/R budget decimates domestic programs while increasing defense spending? That the R/R tax plan lowers Romney's tax rate to less than 1%? Do you think they want to discuss the real impact of repealing Obamacare? Of course, they don't want to talk about any of these things. So, they fabricate things.

Anonymous wrote:Somebody has forgotten that the bible says liers go to hell

Hypocrites, too.

Anonymous wrote:Darn, I thought this was going to be a thread written in way Yoda speaks. On, you carry.

OP here, to disappoint you sorry, I mistyped.

Check out: http://www.yodaspeak.co.uk/

Anonymous wrote:What would you say if a bold faced, pathological liar (like Obama) asked you why you are a liar?

This thread is nonsensical. What is the point? Oh, wait, I know the responses you are looking for. Here, allow me (meanwhile, you might prefer to just post your garbage on FB where people can just click on the like button if affirmation is what you desperately need):

THIS.

+1

I feel like they've been particularly snarky lately, don't you

+1000!!

Why does Mitt even pretend to care about anybody? he is too rich to have emotions. he is a sociopath. and anne is a spoiled bitch.

OP here. Umm, you sound unhinged.

This thread is not nonsensical, it was a genuine question. One PP answers about her hometown did shed some light. I am not on FB so I have no clue what you are rambling about.

My serious question remains, why fabricate things about Obama when there are plenty of genuine differences of policies etc. to exploit?

To answer the original question, it's because lies work.

Anonymous wrote:Why do Democrats lie and say Republicans are for the rich and Democrats are for the poor?

hard to call that a lie when you attack programs for the poor and risk our budgetover tax rates for wealthy Americans.

Sorry bud, that one is firmly on the category of differing opinions, not fact vs fiction. I know truth is such an elusive concept for you so I forgive you for not appreciating the basic difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

That does not seem like an intelligent response.

There is a genuine debate over which party better represents the interests of poor people. It is a matter of opinion, not fact, ergo Dems are not lying when they say Republicans "are for the rich."

But stating Obama is Muslim is a lie.
Claiming he was born in Kenya is a lie.
Circulating the idea that Michelle said "all this for a damn flag" is a lie.

Either you cannot tell the difference between opinions and facts or you are purposely playing dumb to further your agenda.

No, IT IS A LIE - Republicans are NOT "for the rich." OMG this is so completely absurd! It's as ridiculous as discussion of Obama's dog eating (which is factual mind you).

I am rich. Demonstrably wealthy with a HHI of more than $2M. Multiple homes, investments - all of it. And I know that the Republicans are for me. They do a great job of convincing ordinary citizens that they are for them, too, but their policies favor those of us who make lots of money.