OP, ITA.

I just heard a news report that covered some of the details: in addition to the 10 former teammates, including one of his best friends, who were prepared to testify against him, the agency evidently has said they have tests that are "fully consistent" with doping (altho even the radio reporter said it's not clear what "fully consistent" means in this case.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can someone be "certain" he has doped, but he has NEVER failed a test? I don't think there has ever, in history, been an athlete under such a microscope. How could someone under such intense scrutiny pass every single test?

He has been consistent his entire career. No spikes, nothing-a steady achiever.

I agree. This is BS to act as if we all "know."

As a parent, this is one of those things I mourn from our youth. Professional athletes were achievers but in a world separate from mine. I could admire Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron for what they did on and off the field. Today, the money and media coverage are 100x higher and our "heroes" wilt under the pressure.

We knew and loved Tiger Woods and his story until we found that, despite a decade of 24x7 coverage, we didn't know anything. There is not an athlete that I can point out to my son and say "that is a great person" because the next week it can all come crashing down. Lance Armstrong and Joe Paterno are two more that come to mind.

It's sad.

Anonymous wrote:How can someone be "certain" he has doped, but he has NEVER failed a test? I don't think there has ever, in history, been an athlete under such a microscope. How could someone under such intense scrutiny pass every single test?

He has been consistent his entire career. No spikes, nothing-a steady achiever.

I agree. This is BS to act as if we all "know."

Anonymous wrote:ugh, are there no pro sports with clean stars? It's disgusting to me that we have no one for our children to really look up to.

I love sports, but if you really think about it, why should our children look up to professional athletes as any type of role models. They are talented entertainers. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anonymous wrote:He doped for 20 years, just like nearly everyone else in cycling. They had at least 10 former teammates who were eyewitnesses lined up ready to testify. They obviously had a very compelling case or he would not have given up his entire career and Tour victories. As for passing drug tests, he was simply better at it than others. I think it is still OK to admire him, but with your eyes open.

I agree.

Marion Jones, Jan Ulrich, Ivan Basso, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Ivan Basso, Alejandro Valverde, David Millar, Francisco Mancebo, the East German Women's 100m swimming relay team, etc..., also passed hundreds of tests and never tested positive.

Plus, he tested positive for a steroid in 1999 but got a post dated doctors note absolving him.

Lance was clearly doping. There's NO WAY a clean rider could compete with riders of similar ability that were doping. Yes, Lance is a physical freak, but no different than the other 5 or so top finishers in the tour.

He won on a level playing field because every body else was doping, but he's definitely guilty of doping.

Anonymous wrote:ugh, are there no pro sports with clean stars? It's disgusting to me that we have no one for our children to really look up to.

Parents.

Anonymous wrote:Lance gets a good deal. He got to collect the money from all the sponsors and only has to give up the medals?
He already has made enough money to retire

Not exactly. There are civil suits now being brought against him that will cost him millions if he loses.

The dope technology is ahead of the testing technology. The testers can only find what they are testing for.

Wonder if long term use of the drugs shortens ones life. That would be the ultimate sacrifice for fame, glory, medals and money.

Anonymous wrote:ugh, are there no pro sports with clean stars? It's disgusting to me that we have no one for our children to really look up to.

Tennis is still a pretty clean sport. They take the doping seriously (including unannounced drop in tests at home when players are not even at a tournament). The last couple of cases of even accidental banned substance use have been punished pretty severely.

Anonymous wrote:I used to follow cycling and wished to go to the Tour de France someday. All the doping soured me on the sport. Yes, Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong never failed a test and I am certain they both did PEDs, heavily.

Barry Bonds absolutely failed tests (the cream and the clear, remember?), but claimed he didn't know what was in the stuff he used. Roger Clemens never failed a test (although if anyone believed he didn't use PEDs, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you).

He is a fraud, he cheated in his sport, he cheated in his marriage. He just had smarter doctors n the books to come up with ways to mask his drug use and then his ego got too big and he pissed off his doctors, trainers, and teamates and they turned on him.

Simply put, a fraud

Like anything where the person doesn't fight/accepts I just wait for the real dirt they have on the person to come out.

Not a biker/don't care/find it gross actually.

Anonymous wrote:The entire sport at the international level is a complete fraud.

+1000

I stopped worrying who did and didn't dope years ago. As far as I can tell, they ALL do.