Anonymous
Post 08/05/2012 09:27     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The complaint specifically states there is discrimintion againt blacks and Hispanics and outlines how that discrimination is occurring - including the failure of the school system to identify and nurture black/Hispanic students in the early years as is done for white students.


So why did they spend the majority of their complaint focusing on statistics re: TJ admissions vs. focusing on statistics re: AAP eligibility, especially given the timing of changes in the AAP eligibility process so tat it no longer simply looks at test scores?


I don't undertand your question.


The focus of their complaint is not on TJ admissions but is instead on Level 4 AAP eligibility, as their complaint states the "best" (my word, not theirs) way into TJ is through Level 4 Centers.

They provide historical data about TJ admissions in their complaint, but do not provide historical data about Level 4 AAP eligibility.

FCPS has made changes to the Level 4 AAP eligibility methodology, specifically to address historically underrepresented populations. Presentations to the School Board have shown some gains for black and Hispanic populations over this period in time. (As an aside, there have been many that have complained about these changes in the eligibility criteria, arguing that AAP Centers are now "watered down.")

So why doesn't their complaint show the longitudinal data about Level 4 GT/AAP eligibility and instead simply focuses on a snapshot of data about AAP Centers (from 2009, I believe) and the longitudinal data about TJ admissions?
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2012 09:20     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The complaint specifically states there is discrimintion againt blacks and Hispanics and outlines how that discrimination is occurring - including the failure of the school system to identify and nurture black/Hispanic students in the early years as is done for white students.


So why did they spend the majority of their complaint focusing on statistics re: TJ admissions vs. focusing on statistics re: AAP eligibility, especially given the timing of changes in the AAP eligibility process so tat it no longer simply looks at test scores?


I don't undertand your question.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2012 19:18     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:The complaint specifically states there is discrimintion againt blacks and Hispanics and outlines how that discrimination is occurring - including the failure of the school system to identify and nurture black/Hispanic students in the early years as is done for white students.


So why did they spend the majority of their complaint focusing on statistics re: TJ admissions vs. focusing on statistics re: AAP eligibility, especially given the timing of changes in the AAP eligibility process so tat it no longer simply looks at test scores?

Anonymous
Post 08/04/2012 19:06     Subject: Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And what schools should be avoided PP? Please share and include your reasoning.


I wouldn't send my kids to Hybla Valley or Mount Vernon Woods. They are largely ESOL students, and over 75% low-income, and I'd worry that the needs of other kids would get overlooked.

I'm not a TC basher, but I'd still pick Hayfield or West Potomac over TC.


That was my thought when I considered looking at a house by there.

OP - use this link to view the profile for the Fairfax County school (just enter a home address) - I recommend viewing the demographic and test result profiles.

http://boundary.fcps.edu/boundary/

Anonymous
Post 08/04/2012 19:03     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't think there is any discrimination. I do think there is a huge disparity between academic achievement amongst racial/socioeconomic groups. Despite early efforts to get young underrepresented minorities into AAP, they continue to be underrepresented. That does not equate to discrimination.

Are Asians not a minority? Asians represent a smaller % of the total percentage of Fairfax County than Hispanics.


The complaint specifically states there is discrimintion againt blacks and Hispanics and outlines how that discrimination is occurring - including the failure of the school system to identify and nurture black/Hispanic students in the early years as is done for white students. The complaint doesn't extend to Asians even though they are a minority in terms of populations, they are over-represented.


There aren't many Asians in either the City of Alexandria or the Alexandria part of Fairfax County compared to how Asians are spread out elsewhere in Fairfax.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2012 14:48     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:I don't think there is any discrimination. I do think there is a huge disparity between academic achievement amongst racial/socioeconomic groups. Despite early efforts to get young underrepresented minorities into AAP, they continue to be underrepresented. That does not equate to discrimination.

Are Asians not a minority? Asians represent a smaller % of the total percentage of Fairfax County than Hispanics.


The complaint specifically states there is discrimintion againt blacks and Hispanics and outlines how that discrimination is occurring - including the failure of the school system to identify and nurture black/Hispanic students in the early years as is done for white students. The complaint doesn't extend to Asians even though they are a minority in terms of populations, they are over-represented.
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2012 14:25     Subject: Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Not sure how much this helps, but Northern Virginia Magazine just compiled a list of the best elementary schools and four City of Alexandria schools were on the list, and only one Fairfax County Alexandria was on the list (Stratford Landing).
Anonymous
Post 08/04/2012 08:10     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:Based on a comment from the PP, I read the Coalition of the Silence complaint about FCPS and the TJ admissions process. It didn't so much lead me to think that there's a huge disparity among schools as much as there's economic/racial discrimination. What's particularly concerning is the parent group that argues so strongly and influentially for the "right" kind of student at TJ - all the while increasing numbers of students there need math remediation. What I take away from it isn't so much that the poor/diverse schools are bad but that there are still racial/economic barriers to academic achievement. If you haven't read the complaint, you should http://coalitionofthesilence.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/fairfax-complaint-7-23.pdf


I don't think there is any discrimination. I do think there is a huge disparity between academic achievement amongst racial/socioeconomic groups. Despite early efforts to get young underrepresented minorities into AAP, they continue to be underrepresented. That does not equate to discrimination.

Are Asians not a minority? Asians represent a smaller % of the total percentage of Fairfax County than Hispanics.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2012 20:35     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:Based on a comment from the PP, I read the Coalition of the Silence complaint about FCPS and the TJ admissions process. It didn't so much lead me to think that there's a huge disparity among schools as much as there's economic/racial discrimination. What's particularly concerning is the parent group that argues so strongly and influentially for the "right" kind of student at TJ - all the while increasing numbers of students there need math remediation. What I take away from it isn't so much that the poor/diverse schools are bad but that there are still racial/economic barriers to academic achievement. If you haven't read the complaint, you should http://coalitionofthesilence.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/fairfax-complaint-7-23.pdf


Which parent group are you referring to? FCAG argues that more emphasis should be placed on the TJ admissions test and math GPAs than is currently the case, and that doing so will reduce the number of students who require math remediation at TJ. COS/NAACP is worried that, if this ever happens, the number of black and Hispanic students at TJ will decline further, so it's contending that FCPS needs to spend more time (and more time usually means more money) beefing up advanced academic programs at the elementary and middle school levels and enrolling more black and Hispanic students in those programs.

Either way, you can't read the COS/NAACP complaint without seeing that they are now on the record as asserting that there are "enormous disparities in the quality of Fairfax County schools and the programs offered in those schools." The crux of their argument appears to be that the impact of attending inferior schools is borne primarily by black and Hispanic students, as a result of which such students are underrepresented at TJ. You may disagree with that argument, but they specifically asserted that FCPS is now operating a "network of separate and unequal schools," not just that black and Hispanic students are discriminated against at schools where other students excel. I understand that white parents with kids at those schools may not like to see the COS and NAACP portray them negatively, but that's what they've done. Whether they are shooting themselves in the foot in the process is a different issue.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2012 19:56     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Based on a comment from the PP, I read the Coalition of the Silence complaint about FCPS and the TJ admissions process. It didn't so much lead me to think that there's a huge disparity among schools as much as there's economic/racial discrimination. What's particularly concerning is the parent group that argues so strongly and influentially for the "right" kind of student at TJ - all the while increasing numbers of students there need math remediation. What I take away from it isn't so much that the poor/diverse schools are bad but that there are still racial/economic barriers to academic achievement. If you haven't read the complaint, you should http://coalitionofthesilence.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/fairfax-complaint-7-23.pdf
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2012 18:28     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
I live in Alexandria, but have taught in both Alexandria and Fairfax County. It makes me so sad to say that ACPS is a disaster. The current administration is dysfunctional, and this quickly trickles down to make working in the schools a real challenge. I worked with great teachers, but the odds are stacked against them until they get new administration.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2012 18:19     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Not the PP you’re responding to but I agree with her. No one said that every school is equal. You’re focusing on the entire school, not how an individual student will perform. FCPS isn’t required to provide the most challenging environment for students, they are to educate all kids to a minimum standard set by the government. That standard is the same across FCPS. You’re implying that students in the rich areas of FFX are offered better educational opportunities (more challenging opportunities) than those in the poorer area. That’s simply not the case. If that were true, you can bet there’d be quite a few lawsuits about it. While scores may vary, every student in FCPS has the same education opportunities provided by their school. Every school feeds into an AAP center or has differentiated instruction for those who benefit from greater challenges. I don’t know why you think higher achieving students are being ignored in favor of lower scoring students. You don’t seem to have any experience with those kids of schools or know anyone who actually attends them. All you have is your opinion about poor kids whose families don’t speak English at home.


I think the PP did suggest every school was more or less equal. No doubt FCPS is expected to meet minimum standards in every school. As to whether the educational opportunities are comparable across-the-board, that's open to debate. A complaint was recently filed by the NAACP and another group called the "Coalition of the Silence" (headed by a former FCPS School Board member) with the Department of Education specifically alleging that there are "enormous disparities in the quality of Fairfax County schools and the programs offered in these schools" and that "as a result, FCPS has evolved into a system that essentially operates a network of separate and unequal schools." Do you think these claims, or the circumstances that give rise to them, are lost on parents? In addition, if students attend schools with higher-achieving peers, who come from families where a high priority is placed on education, that allows teachers to explore materials in greater depth and spend less time worrying about maintaining order in the classroom or seeking to ensure that the students achieve a minimum level of competency. That may not readily lend itself to a lawsuit, since the teachers and administrators may be doing the best they can, but it provides students at some schools with superior educational opportunities. This is pretty elementary stuff, no pun intended. Sometimes there's a reason for the conventional wisdom, after all.

Anonymous
Post 08/03/2012 17:50     Subject: Re:Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We're in the Alexandria section of FFX County. I can't speak to the ACPS but I think there are a lot of fear mongers in this forum. My kids go to school that is majority minority, with a lot of FARM kids and is a Title One school. We love it. I also have friends with kids at Hybla Valley and Mount Eagle. I don't know a single person who thinks their child suffered because the needs of the disadvantaged kids were so overwhelming. The Title 1 schools (and the Priority Schools) get extra resources, have smaller class sizes and are require to have a certain level of parental/communiy engagement. The PTA may not be able to raise as much money as the PTA in Silverbrook or McLean but the educational opportunities at our local schools are equal to theirs. I also appreciate that my kids are being exposed to people/kids from all walks of life and that my kid isn't embarrased to say "we don't have money for that" because he isn't the only one in his class that says that. Every school (elementary, middle, high) offers abundant educational opportunities in a safe environment. Test scores, the number of minorities and number of FARMS don't tell the whole story.


I don't think it's fear-mongering.

If you think all local schools are equal, than the OP's question becomes moot; it really shouldn't matter whether she goes with the City of Alexandria or the Alexandria part of Fairfax County. But few people - including Congress or the the Federal Government - actually believe that. The entire reason for designating some schools as Title I schools is that schools with higher percentages of low-income students face challenges that schools in more affluent areas don't face. That's why they get extra resources that are not made available to schools in other areas. You seem to assume that Title I functions perfectly and brings all the Title I schools up to par with schools in areas where, for example, parents voluntarily attend school events and don't need to be offered free pizza to do so. I'm less confident that Title I has yet accomplished all of its goals, since student achievement in many Title I schools continues to lag. I'd be happy sending my kids to quite a few Title I schools in the Alexandria area, just not those with percentages of ESOL and FRL students as high as those at Hybla Valley or Mount Vernon Woods. The fact that your friends may be satisfied with Hybla Valley may suggest that FCPS does a good job of providing a threshold level of educational services, but few people believe that such schools will provide the most challenging environment for their kids, given that so much of the school's attention will be devoted to raising the performance of low-achieving students to meet NCLB requirements. You may say that test scores don't tell the whole story, but school administrators are encouraged to fixate on them.


Not the PP you’re responding to but I agree with her. No one said that every school is equal. You’re focusing on the entire school, not how an individual student will perform. FCPS isn’t required to provide the most challenging environment for students, they are to educate all kids to a minimum standard set by the government. That standard is the same across FCPS. You’re implying that students in the rich areas of FFX are offered better educational opportunities (more challenging opportunities) than those in the poorer area. That’s simply not the case. If that were true, you can bet there’d be quite a few lawsuits about it. While scores may vary, every student in FCPS has the same education opportunities provided by their school. Every school feeds into an AAP center or has differentiated instruction for those who benefit from greater challenges. I don’t know why you think higher achieving students are being ignored in favor of lower scoring students. You don’t seem to have any experience with those kids of schools or know anyone who actually attends them. All you have is your opinion about poor kids whose families don’t speak English at home.
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2012 12:37     Subject: Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
Anonymous wrote:My kids are in a Title I school. School also has high percentage of ESOL students. My kids have also been identified "gifted". By PPs assessment, I should be running away, because my kids school is so focused on poor underachieving kids who don't speak English, my kids will languish.
This has not been our experience at all. My kids get specialized instruction in small groups based on their academic level. Teachers and administrators meet as a team to discuss education plans for my children. They enjoy utilizing the many resources that the school has (thanks to Title I funding). Our Title I parent involvement nights are great events enjoyed by all families from all backgrounds. I'd be an idiot to pull my children out of this school and put them into a private, or move away from this neighborhood.


Glad you're having a good experience. Some Title I schools are great. But others will defend their Title I, high-ESOL/FRL schools to the hilt, and then hit a wall and assert their kids haven't gotten as good an education there as at other schools; don't have equal access to Level IV services; are at a disadvantage when applying to TJHSST or to colleges, etc.

Again, I'm not suggesting people should reject Title I schools automatically, but as long as NCLB exists schools with exceptionally high numbers of ESOL/FRL students are likely to focus on the needs of their most challenged students. People in this area generally know this; if they felt otherwise, they'd flock to areas served by Title I schools to take advantage of the less expensive housing and additional resources that schools in such areas receive. Do people really spurn Lyles-Crouch for J-H with any frequency, or cross a home in the Waynewood or Stratford Landing ES districts off their list so they can go live in Hybla Valley instead?
Anonymous
Post 08/03/2012 11:29     Subject: Are Fairfax County Alexandria schools better than Alexandria City schools?
My kids are in a Title I school. School also has high percentage of ESOL students. My kids have also been identified "gifted". By PPs assessment, I should be running away, because my kids school is so focused on poor underachieving kids who don't speak English, my kids will languish.
This has not been our experience at all. My kids get specialized instruction in small groups based on their academic level. Teachers and administrators meet as a team to discuss education plans for my children. They enjoy utilizing the many resources that the school has (thanks to Title I funding). Our Title I parent involvement nights are great events enjoyed by all families from all backgrounds. I'd be an idiot to pull my children out of this school and put them into a private, or move away from this neighborhood.